Sorry to Ask Again but FREAKING out

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  • Intarsiac

    Active Member
    Jun 17, 2008
    243
    Southern Maryland
    Cripes, seriously?

    The FFL sold you an AR in MD without 30 round mags - legal. The FFL shipped some surplus mags not for sale in MD to an address in another state - legal. You took possession of some mags in a state where it was legal to do so - legal.

    Problem is... ?

    EDIT - does your receipt for the AR list any 30 round mags? If not, you're fine.

    This ^. You did not buy nor take possession of the 30 round mags in MD. A MD FFL can legally receive 30 round mags and ship them out of the state.
     

    mathfish

    Member
    May 13, 2013
    37
    Cripes, seriously?

    The FFL sold you an AR in MD without 30 round mags - legal. The FFL shipped some surplus mags not for sale in MD to an address in another state - legal. You took possession of some mags in a state where it was legal to do so - legal.

    Problem is... ?

    EDIT - does your receipt for the AR list any 30 round mags? If not, you're fine.

    And the FFL in MD didn't sell the AR to me. I bought it from a FFL out of state. The in state FFL just received the box of the AR and the unfortunate 30 round mag. He only did paper work.

    Finally, if I did want to talk to a lawyer about this, how could I find a recommended one apart from a google search?
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    wow, that "lawyer" has no business pretending to be an authority on anything gun related. Here's the law...
    mags.jpg
    access it here...
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/mdcode/
    criminal law---> weapon crimes----> subtitle3:"assault weapons and detachable magazines"----> 4-305 detachable magazines--prohibited

    (b) Prohibited. -- A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.

    This law applies to you when you are inside of maryland's borders. Notice that there is no prohibition against possession or use. If you leave maryland's borders and buy a magazine legally, you then possess it...and since there is no prohibition against possessing it, you may legally cross back in to md possessing the magazine.

    You may not:
    manufacture- this means you can't build one from scratch and may mean you cannot assemble one from "parts kits" inside md's borders

    sell- You can't take money in exchange for a >10 mag

    offer for sale- you can't advertise that you've got >10 mags you want to sell

    purchase- inside of md's borders, you can't give someone money in exchange for a >10 magazine

    receive- someone cannot just give you a magazine >10 as a gift where the magazine changes possession and becomes your property

    transfer- you can't give a magazine >10 as a gift to someone where it changes possession and becomes someone else's property



    Again, since there is no law against possession and use...you can legally obtain one out of state where legal by their own laws, then bring it back to md to use.
     

    mathfish

    Member
    May 13, 2013
    37
    thanks all for the replies. This is what I need and why I did it originally because it seemed 100% legal.

    But again I worry about why someone who is "in the know" says otherwise.

    For example, not to flame Mr. H. I am sure he knows his stuff but his post seemed to be more of a "I am not so sure this is legal".

    He is not on but that little doubt is enough to keep this door open and make me wonder.
     

    CnC

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 3, 2012
    5,095
    And the FFL in MD didn't sell the AR to me. I bought it from a FFL out of state. The in state FFL just received the box of the AR and the unfortunate 30 round mag. He only did paper work.

    Finally, if I did want to talk to a lawyer about this, how could I find a recommended one apart from a google search?

    I'm sure others here can recommend a good 2A competent lawyer (I don't know any, never had the need). I have seen in past threads competent lawyers recommended, someone is sure to point you in the right direction in this thread or via PM soon enough :thumbsup:

    Try to relax, and honestly consider saving your lawyer money for a box of 30 rounders. We're a cautious bunch here (battered gun owners syndrome affects us as well), and while I am not a lawyer, I personally would not worry about this at all if I was in your shoes and situation- and I really like my 2A rights intact and would never risk losing it :thumbsup:
     

    Intarsiac

    Active Member
    Jun 17, 2008
    243
    Southern Maryland
    If it was a MD FFL, "offer for sale" for a 30 would have been an issue, even before FSA13.

    Mr. H. was saying IF it were a MD FFL that you purchased the mags from, it would be an issue, because 30 round mags could not be purchased in MD even before FSA13.

    You then confirmed that you did not purchase from a MD FFL. Mr. H's concern is now moot.

    Rest easy. :)
     

    CnC

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 3, 2012
    5,095
    thanks all for the replies. This is what I need and why I did it originally because it seemed 100% legal.

    But again I worry about why someone who is "in the know" says otherwise.

    For example, not to flame Mr. H. I am sure he knows his stuff but his post seemed to be more of a "I am not so sure this is legal".

    He is not on but that little doubt is enough to keep this door open and make me wonder.

    I believe Mr. H may have been going on the tack of you purchasing specifically 30 round mags while in MD. As in, on your receipt it lists 30 round mags and you bought them specifically and separately while here in MD. Remember, FFL's get shipments all day long, and who's to say the shipment that contained your AR didn't also contain suppressors and FA rifles in addition to the surplus 30 rounders? Doesn't matter a bit for you if the box contained a tank, as long as the FFL followed MD law regarding you and your purchase, which it sounds like they did.

    What does your paperwork and receipt say? Any mention of the mags anywhere?
     

    mathfish

    Member
    May 13, 2013
    37
    I will have to look. I am at the hospital right now. My daughter was just born.

    I think the stress of this is actually because of that. Fearing losing my job with a new girl . . .
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    If its that important I would not rely on legal advice from a message board. The MSP reads this board. You never know when theyll get a bug up their ass and try to stretch the law. The right judge, the right case, they can make your life hell. Id find a real lawyer with experience and CYA. I dont know what itll cost, but they could be the most expensive mags you never got.
     

    bkuether

    Judge not this race .....
    Jan 18, 2012
    6,212
    Marriottsville, MD
    So.... seriously.

    Lets pretend the FFL in MD let the mag slip. Just call it a Sr moment.

    You go to the range, and start shooting your rifle with your ill gotten 30 rounder.

    No one is checking where your mags came from. We all have them. Take a walk up the AGC shooting line on a busy day. 20, 30, 40, 75, 100. I have seen them all. If it was illegal, the police would need a station there manned full time.

    When you start getting questioned about your mags, it's over. Marshall Law has already been declared and now you have to decide how you use that mag. Because at that point every gun, mag, and gun owner is illegal. At least in the eyes of the tyrants.

    Now lets pretend that the FFL regains his memory and asks you to return the magazine. Yep, probably should bring it back.

    Sit back, relax, and enjoy your flight. And then get your sorry a$$ into PA or VA and STOCK UP. Anything less than 20 mags on hand is criminal. :rolleyes:
     

    CnC

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 3, 2012
    5,095
    I will have to look. I am at the hospital right now. My daughter was just born.

    I think the stress of this is actually because of that. Fearing losing my job with a new girl . . .

    Congrats on the baby girl :thumbsup:

    The post just prior to this (danb) is sure to give you cold chills, try to relax though. In your case I do think you should consult with a competent 2A attorney just so you feel better. Personally I think you're just fine fwiw (not worth much, but I am a cautious guy regarding keeping my rights intact and I do think you're just fine).
     

    HRDWRK

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Jan 7, 2013
    2,642
    39°43′19.92216″ N
    I know you have all fielded this question before, even from myself so I am very sorry to ask again but I really need a sanity check so I do not go crazy. Quickly here is the back-story:

    Before the new gun laws came into affect, I ordered an AR15 and asked them twice to remove the 30 round magazine. They said yes both times but didn't. The FFL said he could ship the magazine to someone I knew in VA and I could pick it up legally. I was worried that was not right and I asked the board here and everyone said it was legal. I read the law and it seemed consistent with what everyone was saying. So that is what I did and drove it back to PG county.

    Fast forward some months and the lawyer at my gun club at work was going over the new gun laws and he got to the section on detachable magazines and he mentioned it was illegal to go to another state and buy magazine and transport it back. He pointed to the word "transfer" in the line " A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine ...."

    So I freak out. My job depends on me being in good legal standing. But on this board and on other sites it says it is legal. To me the context of the magazine part of the law is on possession. So transfer must mean transfer possession not just movement of something. If hypothetically it did mean movement and not change of ownership of a magazine greater than 10 rounds, because it doesn't say "transfer into the state" or something similar, then it would make it illegal to flat out move your magazine. To your car, to the gun range, out of the safe, whatever. Which is crazy. So it has to mean transfer as in ownership. So I don't see how it could be illegal but I am bothered that he was a lawyer from a gun club who said it was illegal. So it is really bothering me that there is some "other" law that he knew about or a county law or something. Or that "transfer" really does mean "movement". I don't want to pay a lot of money that I don't have to consult a lawyer but I don't want to keep on worrying about this and it really is keeping me up at nights. Maybe I'm just more sensitive than most but I am just going around in circles wondering if I broke the law and what to do next.

    I really could use some help and something pretty conclusive that I can lean on. I'm freaking out just a little. Thank you!!

    What Gun Club? Is the gun club in MD? I would question a lawyer for a Gun Club not knowing the laws of the state?
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    1. Never post a actual legal issue ( that is not hypothetical )on a public forum.
    2. You are likely fine. The minor distinction is over mail order purchase vs in person purchase.
    3. You need to discuss the particulars under privilege.


    You are likely fine.


    But here is another tip. Destruction of the mag did not make the " illegal transfer " legal. It just adds the crime if destruction of evidence.
    .

    Hence " do not post non hypothetical legal questions of any type on a public forum nor discuss out side the protection of Atty client privilege.

    BTW it would be one hell of a stretch to make this unlawful..
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    OMG, some of you guys are your own worst enemies. Forget buying out of state and all of that for just a moment. The bottom line is there is no law against OWNING or POSSESSING a magazine greater than 10 rounds.
     

    bkuether

    Judge not this race .....
    Jan 18, 2012
    6,212
    Marriottsville, MD
    I think so too, maybe I'll send out a post on that.

    I can see what Mr H is getting at.

    Don't let this ruin your time with your newborn. That is something you only get once.

    Yes being a new parent is scary. And trust me, a magazine will seem inconsequential when you are listening for breath sounds 2 days after she comes home.

    I swear I didn't sleep for days......

    Go, now. Your fine.
     

    CnC

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 3, 2012
    5,095
    I may be wrong, but the issue here may wind up being whether or not his paperwork/receipt lists 30 rounders within the purchase.
     

    MdPrep

    Tactically Tactless
    Sep 24, 2014
    212
    Entirely legal and even in the context of an anti-2A'er there's no way the State could enforce the context of which you're concerned about. I believe regulating commerce is done so by the Federals and unless it's intra-State; Maryland has no say so. Correct me if I'm speaking out of line, gents.
     

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