Vicious WWI Trench Knives!

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  • SirMrManGuy

    Active Member
    Feb 14, 2010
    228
    Taupo NZ
    I've heard there are a lot of US 1918 fakes on the market, how do you tell a real one from a fake?
     

    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    I've heard there are a lot of US 1918 fakes on the market, how do you tell a real one from a fake?

    There are several ways to tell a real knife from a fake. Fake ones are often newly made replicas that have been altered and aged artificially. Most replicas only have the "US 1918" marking on the handle and often this marking is smaller or different looking from what's on the originals. Real U.S. made 1918 trench knives were marked with a smaller maker's mark on the handle below the "US 1918" marking. Sometimes the maker's mark is faked. These makers include "L F & C - 1918", "O C L - 1918", and "H D & S - 1918". All US made example came with a steel sheath marked "L F & C - 1918" at the top. Original French made knives always have "Au Lion" stamped on one side of the blade near the handle. This marking can also be faked. I recommend studying authentic examples at gun/knife shows and in books before buying. Study the blades and the sheaths as well. Many fakes come with the wrong sheath and the blades are not correctly ground. Some fakes even have spike blades, and no originals came with such a blade but it is important to remember that during WWII many original knives were altered in the theater and different blades were added.

    Here's some photos, first one is a real US made knife showing the sheath and all markings. Second one shows an original French made sheath made from thin sheet metal, notice the welded prongs. The American sheaths were built differently and have riveted prongs and thicker metal than the french examples. Third photo shows a fake, notice the small marking on the handle, the poorly ground blade, and the wrong sheath.
    Last photo shows an authentic French made example, notice the large marking on the handle, much larger than the marking on the fake one. Another thing to look for is the "skull crusher" nut securing the blade to the handle. Fakes often have nuts that are quite different in size and shape. Fakes also can have very poor or rough casting of the handle.
    Hope this helps!
     

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    ThisGuy918

    Active Member
    Nov 11, 2011
    233
    Since this thread was revived by another I will add a little history. The WWI trench knife with the triangular blade was indeed banned by the geneva convention because the wounds will/would not close up or heal properly. Basically leaving a triangular hole in the person that can not be stitched shut or closed before the person bleeds out. The ban actually states blades having more than two sides may not be used (Not an exact quote but you get the just of it).
     

    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    Since this thread was revived by another I will add a little history. The WWI trench knife with the triangular blade was indeed banned by the geneva convention because the wounds will/would not close up or heal properly. Basically leaving a triangular hole in the person that can not be stitched shut or closed before the person bleeds out. The ban actually states blades having more than two sides may not be used (Not an exact quote but you get the just of it).

    Hard to imagine a knife being too brutal for war.
    But that's what makes them such great collector's items.
    Glad I got mine years ago when they were still somewhat affordable.
    They have been getting harder and harder to find, especially with the leather sheath.
     

    ThisGuy918

    Active Member
    Nov 11, 2011
    233
    You guys have some really nice collections. This may be something I need to look into collecting. I find the WWI trench knives/bayonets very interesting. Many have blunt point and some even flat to ensure maximum damage. I remember looking at the WWI section in our local museum growing up and wondering what it must have been like to fight like that. It was a very different kind of war back then. There was no such thing as a "wounding weapons" or collateral damage. Everything was made to kill and maim at all costs.
     

    rj1974

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 31, 2011
    11,207
    Edgemere , md.
    You guys have some really nice collections. This may be something I need to look into collecting. I find the WWI trench knives/bayonets very interesting. Many have blunt point and some even flat to ensure maximum damage. I remember looking at the WWI section in our local museum growing up and wondering what it must have been like to fight like that. It was a very different kind of war back then. There was no such thing as a "wounding weapons" or collateral damage. Everything was made to kill and maim at all costs.

    It is a great hobby . Ive been collecting sharp pointy things since I was a kid . I look at the knives at gun shows more then I do the firearms. Just a word of advice , decide what you want to collect and do lots of research .There are some great books out the and online resources for identifying knives . And ther are sooooo many fakes out there ,hell I know some people that collect the fakes . Ive bought a few just because they did look so good.As far as US military knives Ive found the M.H.Coles books to be some of the best great pictures and descriptions , his books are collectors items themselves now and command a hefty price . But if they keep ypu from getting screwed they are well worth it .Silvey and Trzaska have some great books out too . Ebay used to be a great place to get knives cheap before everyone started realizing what they had lol . Now I usualy just dig around at yard sales and flea markets and some antique shops ,craigslist has been good on occassion too.Anyway Ive rambled on enough .Its a fun hobby and can get expensive . Feel free to ask if you have any questions Im sure youll get great help here on the forum.:thumbsup:

    Ray
     

    Spur

    Active Member
    May 1, 2011
    403
    Harford County
    Interesting copllection. on the TV Series "Boardwalk Empire", a main character returned from WW I and carried one in his boot as a gangster. I believe in the show he has killed several men with it, before he himslef was killed in the finale. Thanks for the information, several facts I did not know, including the tirangle blade restriction.
     

    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    Interesting copllection. on the TV Series "Boardwalk Empire", a main character returned from WW I and carried one in his boot as a gangster. I believe in the show he has killed several men with it, before he himslef was killed in the finale. Thanks for the information, several facts I did not know, including the tirangle blade restriction.

    Here's a scene from Boardwalk Empire showing the knife, I can tell from the picture it's a replica because of the small marking on the handle and the way the blade is ground.
     

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    brianong18

    Nobody
    Jul 11, 2011
    571
    Pasadena, MD
    Nice collection. I've been looking for a trench knife of my own. Is there a place that I can get a replica that would actually be useable if needed? All I've found are cheap looking replicas online. I can't trust a $15 replica.
     

    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    Nice collection. I've been looking for a trench knife of my own. Is there a place that I can get a replica that would actually be useable if needed? All I've found are cheap looking replicas online. I can't trust a $15 replica.

    There's several different replicas of the 1918 Mark I trench knife out there, the best ones are the older ones that are made in Japan, but the ones by United Cutlery aren't too bad too. I think the one in Boardwalk Empire in the picture above is one of the older Japanese made replicas. I wouldn't buy any replicas that you can't take apart by unscrewing the nut. The strongest and best ones will have a solid piece of metal for the blade that goes all the way through the handle and is threaded at the end for the skull crusher nut. Cheaper ones that break easily will have glued nuts and/or blades that aren't solid all the way through the handle. Also if it says "Combat Ready" on the blade, it's probably anything but.
     

    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    OCL Trench Knife

    Recently found this rare version of the 1917 trench knife made by Oneida Community Limited. Now I just need one more to complete the collection(the one made by HD&S) but unfortunately only a few dozen of those exist.:sad20:
     

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    mdonzi

    mdonzi
    Feb 26, 2010
    413
    pasadena
    Nice find you have some great blades i picked up a nice L.F&C 1918 mark one at the arms show the had lot nice stuff there
     

    mdonzi

    mdonzi
    Feb 26, 2010
    413
    pasadena
    This is a pic off the one i picked up at arm show sheath has the clpips broken off
     

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    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    This is a pic off the one i picked up at arm show sheath has the clpips broken off

    That's a nice one! Even with the broken clips the sheath is still very good to have and worth quite a bit all by itself.

    I want one of those marked 1918, on the top right. Where should I look, what is the going rate?

    You can find the 1918 Mark1 on Gunbroker and at various websites that sell antique military knives. Also you can find them at gun/knife/militaria shows.
    Prices vary greatly depending on condition. In perfect shape with a perfect sheath they can be over $1,000. In poor condition with no sheath expect to pay several hundred.
     

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