R&R Arrested at March On NRA

welder516 said:

In light of current affairs I want to drop off a 50.00 check to Crownsville if that is okay . It is the right thing to do and the right time . Can someone PM me and tell me who to make the check out to . Is it to R&R's real name or to Cyperpunk ??? Or just post it here again

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Thanks for looking in post 355 for the info on this!

welder516 said:

Thank You , I can't stay at the HPRB meeting but my son & I will drop it off tomorrow night at the meeting .

It will give me a good reason to take my son out to dinner .

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Thank you, sir, for funding this fight!

swinokur said:

Apparently you missed my point. You have no free speech rights on a privately managed forum on any privately owned platform.

This is about Fairfax County Police restricting freedom of assembly and speech.

Has nothing to do with FB and being banned by the moderator. His forum his rules. Same as MDS.

See how that works?

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Of course I do. Apparently, you fail to see the irony within the context of the discussion and that's...OK. The forum where it took place and the rules of that forum are irrelevant, IMHO.

Zzzzz_man said:

Of course I do. Apparently, you fail to see the irony within the context of the discussion and that's...OK. The forum where it took place and the rules of that forum are irrelevant, IMHO.

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I see no irony whatsoever unless you think a privately run forum and government infringement on the 1A are the same thing.

IMO, they are not.

swinokur said:

I see no irony whatsoever unless you think a privately run forum and government infringement on the 1A are the same thing.

IMO, they are not.

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Fair enough. You don't. I do. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Perhaps, but I believe yours (and perhaps others) is a minority view.

And that's fine.

swinokur said:

Perhaps, but I believe yours (and perhaps others) is a minority view.

And that's fine.

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It's all good, my friend. I don't think it is, though.

At the same event I rolled live video of a 17 year old fireplug for about two minutes. Two weeks + and it's had 2.8 million views with a metric assload of comments, most positive and some negative which is fine. But there have been a few hundred who couldn't help themselves and engaged in personal attacks and when warned went down the same 1A argument road. Their posts were whacked with extreme prejudice when they went over the line.

It doesn't matter if the subject is 2A, 1A or grandma's choice of silverware for Sunday dinner, when you are in an arena that isn't your own and isn't .gov you are at the mercy of a benevolent dictator.

Getting back to the discussion of why this matters.

DeepLurker is correct when he points out that Virginia is in the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals--and so is Maryland.

So imagine this: Fairfax County wins at the district level about police using "separate, but equal 1st Amendent areas".

Before and after Charlottesville, police have been barricading opposing political sides all across the country: Portland, Seattle, DC, Nevada, etc. BEFORE declaring illegal assemblies arising from "emergencies".

Let's say this case get appealed all the way up to SCOTUS to settle this "non-emergency barricading" of otherwise peaceful assemblies, based on political points of view?

It's not farfetched.

Some in this forum have asked: what is the ROI, why should anyone support Jeff, and aren't his requests self-serving? Those are fair questions, and I can only answer for myself, but I suspect others might feel the same. Here is how I would respond:

While I'll match my Second Amendment credentials against anyone, it may be sacrilege with some here in MDS to hear this, but I am not a single-issue voter or citizen. I care about the First Amendment too. I care about national defense. I care about the men and women on the front lines of law enforcement and the first responders in this nation. I care about free market economics, private property rights, a strong constitutional system of laws with checks and balances against state and federal tyranny; I care about separation of powers; I care about generational theft as we pass along crushing debt to our progeny; I care about the slaughter of innocent babies in their mothers' wombs, about religious liberties, about equal opportunities (not outcome) for all, and so many other great issues of concern.

It's said in this forum often that the Second Amendment protects the First, and I agree. Well guess what? The First Amendment protects the Second as well, and also protects all of the other things that I so passionately care about. If the Fairfax City government, or any government, can infringe on the First Amendment in a way that puts us in a box, that restricts our access to spread our message, if it takes upon itself the right to determine how, when, and who can speak and the type of speech that they may make, if it feels that it alone has the power to decide who has access to the marketplace of ideas - then it is a power too great and too large, and I feel confident that the wisdom of the Founding Fathers would cry out for us all to stand in the gap, arm in arm with Jeff and the Patriot Pickets, in his defense of both the First and the Second Amendments. Others may do as they feel best, and I mean them no ill-will, but I will not abandon a faithful friend and fellow patriot in his hour of need. He has my funds and my support with my blessing, and if he comes up short my checkbook will be opened again for another refresh to help ensure that his fight, a fight I believe is for us all, is successful.

Semper Fi, Jeff.

All this energy wasted just because someone who's common MO is to troll had to throw toxicity into the conversation because of his need for attention. It's dishonorable behavior.

swinokur said:

Isn’t 1A free speech to keep the government from restricting your speech?

What does that have to do with FB?

Even MDS can ban you for any reason.

No difference I can see

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I know a couple sisters who might disagree. I guess it depends whom is doing the banning and who gets the ban?

I know who you mean but screaming you have 1A rights when on a privately owned platform is flat out wrong.

FB and MDS are exactly the same in that regard. But the govt is a different matter entirely.

The 1A prevents the government from controlling what you say. Has nothing to do with private property. If asked to leave a privately owned venue, you leave or risk a trespass charge. You have no 1A rights on a privately owned forum, be it FB or MDS.

Their property, their rules

If FB was the same as the Govt, then it would be ironic. But since they are not, it isn’t.

Just my .02

outrider58 said:

I know a couple sisters who might disagree. I guess it depends whom is doing the banning and who gets the ban?

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swinokur said:

I know who you mean but screaming you have 1A rights when on a privately owned platform is flat out wrong.

FB and MDS are exactly the same in that regard. But the govt is a different matter entirely.

The 1A prevents the government from controlling what you say. Has nothing to do with private property. If asked to leave a privately owned venue, you leave or risk a trespass charge. You have no 1A rights on a privately owned forum, be it FB or MDS.

Their property, their rules

If FB was the same as the Govt, then it would be ironic. But since they are not, it isn’t.

Just my .02

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This is all evidence of the troll's efforts bearing fruit.

Don't feed it. Stay on topic. Stop giving it attention.

Unless you guys just enjoying arguing for the sake of arguing, which means we all pull in different directions and give our common opponents' the victory.

Pull in the same direction, folk.

I get that but defending bad behavior won’t fly with me either.

It needs to be called out when it occurs. Saying nothing is tacit approval IMO.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

ComeGet said:

This is all evidence of the troll's efforts bearing fruit.

Don't feed it. Stay on topic. Stop giving it attention.

Unless you guys just enjoying arguing for the sake of arguing, which means we all pull in different directions and give our common opponents' the victory.

Pull in the same direction, folk.

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So, I'm a troll now, am I?

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He’s not referring to you. He is referring to the member who got banned from the MDS FB Page for inappropriate comments and the subsequent discussion that came over here.

I agree let’s try to get the thread on topic and focus on the real issue here.

Unconstitutional behavior by the Govt.

Maybe I'm guilty of being ignorant or the inner workings of fakebook. I do not indulge.

I just think attaching "troll" to anything we might not agree with or want to deal with in a discussion is one of those slippery slopes we' always referring to.

I support Jeff and the PP. I may not always agree with their methods, but I support the cause.

Troll(rant) off.

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outrider58 said:

Maybe I'm guilty of being ignorant or the inner workings of fakebook. I do not indulge.

I just think attaching "troll" to anything we might not agree with or want to deal with in a discussion is one of those slippery slopes we' always referring to.

I support Jeff and the PP. I may not always agree with their methods, but I support the cause.

Troll(rant) off.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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What a clown!

I know what a troll looks like; we’ve collectively endured more than a few. You’re no troll sir. Not now. Not ever.

IMO, the problem with “troll” is the same problem with “racist”. Overuse and attempted universal application has sullied the word such that it loses both meaning and impact.

Couple things... The righteousness of the causes of 1A and 2A are undeniable. Moral and legal bedrock. Patriot Picket has done themselves and our community proud in their on site professional and “mostly” restrained demonstration in support of our rights. They have demonstrated, for lack of a better word, patriotism in an above and beyond manner. How they do what they do is up to them. That’s from their organizing to their demonstrations.

The how is what has rubbed some folks the wrong way. Again, IMO, they have amended their organizing from what I can see to move away from what I’ll call “strong arming” and or “guilt tripping” folks to join them...or to support them. This is the intersection where folks who have been uncomfortable with previous perceived practice get sand in their craw. I will say that it’s human nature to observe what I’ll call “zealotry” with at least discomfort. Personally, I believe there’s only a couple other key moral purposes that merit true zealotry...God, family and country. Innate human rights are worth fighting and perhaps even dying over.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here (I don’t FB for a reason...) and guess y’all are assigning this particular use of “troll” to ZzzzMan or maybe even Blaster. Either are entitled to his opinion as any of you or indeed, any of us. If you don’t like it or don’t agree, so be it. I’m guessing they have their reasons for disagreement. Again, just a guess but if somebody’s fur was rubbed the wrong way regarding how PP chose to recruit, organize and motivate, then it’s no surprise that same someone might be less than comfortable with PP fundraising efforts. The righteousness of the cause can never supplant the righteousness of the individual to disagree with or doubt the methodology.

Online communities are full of all kinds of causes. Our MDS community has a preponderance of good shit folks. Our core principles are mostly about appreciating, protecting, defending and understanding our human and Constitutional rights. We will always share that. These are very passionate topics. That we employ passion when we discuss them is no surprise. It’s the control of that passion and our ability to comport ourselves with a wee bit of class or even dignity where we occasionally fall short.

Disagreeing with someone is de rigeur in life and on line. On line flat out sucks as a medium for dialog. It remains mostly monologue and as such, is lousy for any type of effective discourse.

We can disagree without being disagreeable. We are either a community or not. Polarizing about the how’s of our precious passionate issues is neither smart nor effective. Value input and move forward. Spending energy with passive aggressive name calling...is trolling unto itself.

We can do better.

An aside: given Jeff’s health, I trust there’s some sort of “trust” set up (eg, legal defense fund) wherein the funds are safe in the event he cannot administer them himself. Confirmation of that will draw my modest contribution into the kitty.

******I edited this after the fact to add Blaster to ZzzzzzMan.

welder516 said:

If I may take a moment to comment , I like to think I have earned a spot at the table .

When we put ourselves front and center , set up events or go to events we do it for brotherhood and trying to make a difference or if it is a pig roast , luncheon , HPRB meetings, tape the meetings , baboon tasting or......

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Did I miss the sign-up for this?