York gun show having CCW holders clear their weapons

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  • ohen cepel

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 2, 2011
    4,509
    Where they send me.
    Have they always had people carrying concealed pull their weapons and clear them at the front door?

    It looked like an accident waiting to happen to me. Rounds being dropped on the floor, etc. Then, the person put it back in their holster and went on.

    Seemed needless, silly, and dangerous to me. Is there a back story as to why they are doing this there?
     

    zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon
    Agreed. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me. If they don't want loaded weapons in there with CCW holders {not getting into an argument whether that is a proper idea or not} then have the stones to simply say so before people come in. All of that clearing and manipulating outside the holster in a crowded room just increases the chances of a ND exponentially, IMHO.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    It's moronic BS, and York seems to push the issue more than most gun shows in the area. Their "insurance" company has them post no loaded guns, and have a guy out front hassling everyone. So you end up with the worst outcome, inexperienced under-trained or poorly equipped CCers outing themselves, then pull their pistol and clear it in a crowded hallway. Any with even basic experience, including myself just walk right in, with concealed meaning concealed, or avoid the stupidity entirely. Of course anyone up to no good will probably just walk in, walk right into the unlocked exit doors, rob people in the parking lot, load it in the show, buy a gun and load it outside the show, bring ammo to load random display guns, or any other crime that has happened in the past. It's a glaring idiotic hypocracy IMO, easy fodder for antis and a few good people and vendors won't go because of it.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    hypocrisy at its finest. all "we" do is call out businesses that don't let us carry, but it's the MO at most if not all gunshows, at least the one's i've been to.

    and yes, whether having to de-holster and/or unload in our vehicles or at the gate, every time we handle our firearms there is a chance for something bad to happen.
     

    chesapeakeIRON

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2012
    1,488
    Harford County
    Have they always had people carrying concealed pull their weapons and clear them at the front door?



    It looked like an accident waiting to happen to me. Rounds being dropped on the floor, etc. Then, the person put it back in their holster and went on.



    Seemed needless, silly, and dangerous to me. Is there a back story as to why they are doing this there?



    Yeah I thought the same thing when we walked in, very hypocritical as well


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    ohen cepel

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 2, 2011
    4,509
    Where they send me.
    They had a bullet trap there and some people dry fired their pistols into that also. Guy standing right behind it as this was going on with his belly on the trap.

    Just looked like a massive accident waiting to happen. It's not a matter of if, but when.

    I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

    In OEF we had some commands that pushed for things like this, seemed like about once a week someone would pop their weapon off clearing it. Little gain to me but a fair amount of risk.

    Even if the ND does good into the trap it's NOT going to be a good news story. Especially for the guy who's belly is on it.......

    Also, what stops anyone from chambering a round in the bathroom stall if they like after this little dance?

    I wonder if anyone has had a sane conversation with their insurance company and explained the stupidity and danger of this set up? Or, looked for a sane insurer instead who doesn't push this?
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    It's been like this at Oaks for a while. Last time I went there, the wife had to go potty as soon as we got in, so I loitered outside the restroom watching the unloading table as intently as I could...without it being too obvious that I was watching intently. The two police officers explained that it was the promoter's policy that there were no loaded firearms inside. They were apologetic and it seemed like they felt like their being there was a waste of time. I don't mean that they had a bad attitude and wanted to be somewhere else. They were actually quite jovial. I mean that they sympathized with the (no longer) ccwer's and that it was a waste of the ccwer's time. They put a zip tie through the action, but basically said, "this is just to show that we checked it. If you are selling the firearm and need to show that it works, a vendor can just cut the tie." That was it...no mention of re-zipping it. I kinda wonder how many just went into the bathroom and loaded up.

    I'd say about 10-20% of the crowd in line stopped at the table. It was very interesting to watch. Some people approached the LEO's, heard the policy and did an immediate about face. Some seemed a little confused...about the policy and how to operate their firearm :eek: Some just walked right up a whipped it out :shocked2: My BGOS spidey senses were tingling the whole time, but seeing somebody walk right up to two uniformed officers and draw so brazenly...that was more than a little unnerving...but not the worst...

    The worst was a guy who brought a cased rifle up to be checked. It was some kind of foriegn looking autoloader...maybe a Galil? He laid the case on the table, parallel, muzzle pointed at the line of people going in. He unzipped, swept about 120 degrees horizontally in front of him (right across both officer's bellies), before pointing it up and then opening the action.:shocked:Nobody even batted an eye...but I about peed myself
     

    mopar92

    Official MDS Court Jester
    May 5, 2011
    9,513
    Taneytown
    I agree with this policy personally. I've seen too many idiots with no idea of safe gun handling. Add in the usual newbies and people trying out holsters that I've seen take their carry piece (usually sans ziptie) and shove it into a new holster generally without asking the vendor.

    Now the smart ones just don't announce they're carrying and those I don't mind cause they've proven they're smarter than a rule for idiots.
     

    j_h_smith

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 28, 2007
    28,516
    For as long as I've been going to the Oaks show, they do this. Their show, their rules. Don't really have an opinion either way. I do carry when I'm in PA, but I leave the firearm at my son's house when I'm going to the Oaks show. Never had to "check in", so I don't know what's all involved.
     

    lee2

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Oct 8, 2007
    19,012
    If you carry you should be able to clear a weapon without having a negligent discharge.
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    The more a gun is handled, the greater the possibility of a ND. Everyone has a different level of competency with with firearms; putting them on the spot to clear their gun before entering is reckless. Safest place my gun can be is on me. Not in some else's hands, not locked in a car or at home; but physically on me.

    I'm generally against 'no gun zones', and don't go where I'm not welcome.

    If they really must, have a welcome sign that says if you are lawfully carrying concealed please do not remove it unless under the direction of the site safety officer. Have a designated place where in the incredibly rare event someone wants to try a holster or show their firearm for any reason.

    If you are going to the show with the purpose of finding a holster, selling a gun, or any other reason you expect to have a gun out, take it to the show unloaded and declare it upon entering.

    There might be better ways to handle these situations I'm open minded, and comply with rules. Their house, their rules. You won't be seeing me at the York show unless something changes.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    The giant NRA show doesn't do it, their rule is "lawful carry is encouraged", most every gun shop, and some big box stores like Gander Mountain and Cabelas have a sign to "check firearms at the counter, does not apply to carry guns". If people are unsafely handling guns at the show, then there are thousands of knowledgeable vendors and customers that can call them out, or help. Basically having a "designated ND area" along with a glaring hypocracy that the media HAS exploited in the past does nothing to help us.
     

    Trbo6gn

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 30, 2011
    2,801
    Harford Co.
    When i walked in they yelled out loud asking if anyone was carrying. I didn't reply and went on about my way. While paying i had another guy walk over and ask me if i was carrying. I hate feeling like i'm being interrogated before even walking through the door. I understand it all has to do with insurance issues for the location, however don't badger me....I'm not going to tell you i'm carrying even if you ask me 10 times.
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Agreed with most/all the above. It's hypocritical and a really bad idea to ask people if they are carrying concealed; much less to ask them to unload their ccw gun.

    Where do people get off asking other people if they are carrying a concealed firearm? This is ridiculous, I don't even ask my closest friends, and know most if not all of them are carrying. It's probably a combination of ignorance or arrogance to ask such a question. If anyone ever asks you if you are carrying anything, look them in the face and say NO! [none of your business asshat!]. Never has the term 'don't ask, don't tell' been more applicable. You are carrying a concealed firearm concealed so others don't know you are armed; so if you had to use it, you have a tactical advantage, you can choose to get involved or not (hopefully), and the presence of a firearm doesn't bring undue attention to you. No cop, judge, lawyer or citizen knows all the thousands of laws; and you don't want to give anyone an excuse to give you grief. For example, how far away is the closest school to that York gun show? What's the law say about that? If you are a good-guy and doing the right thing, it shouldn't matter.

    Lastly (I guess this is something of a rant now); people should stop using 'insurance requires it' as an excuse. You got the insurance, so it's what YOU want. Otherwise, don't get insurance or get a better policy.

    I am enjoying reading others comments. Maybe if enough of us complained, York might wise up.
     

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