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  • jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    While mulling my next build I came across ultradyne sights. Since I am kicking around a faux dissapator I thought their new muzzle device mounted sight was interesting. Has anyone installed ultradyne sights.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    While mulling my next build I came across ultradyne sights. Since I am kicking around a faux dissapator I thought their new muzzle device mounted sight was interesting. Has anyone installed ultradyne sights.
    In for the thoughts of anyone who has used them.
    I am definitely interested in the sights as well, though I'd be doing the rail mounted front.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Seems interesting, but the muzzle device mounted ones seem like a bad way to go. If they are actually BUIS really, really, really not what you want to be reaching out and deploying or putting away if you have been shooting your rifle some (also IMHO why gas block sights are a bad idea). Also far out there and overall tall, which makes a nice projection to get slammed in to things or caught on things.

    The sphere in sphere sight picture sounds interesting.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Seems interesting, but the muzzle device mounted ones seem like a bad way to go. If they are actually BUIS really, really, really not what you want to be reaching out and deploying or putting away if you have been shooting your rifle some (also IMHO why gas block sights are a bad idea). Also far out there and overall tall, which makes a nice projection to get slammed in to things or caught on things.

    The sphere in sphere sight picture sounds interesting.

    From what I can see they do not appear to be any taller than stand front sight. As for why gas block mounted failed is because of the magpul being plastic. Hence why magpul made their new metal sights. From what I read ultradyne does not consider their sights BUIS per se
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    From what I can see they do not appear to be any taller than stand front sight. As for why gas block mounted failed is because of the magpul being plastic. Hence why magpul made their new metal sights. From what I read ultradyne does not consider their sights BUIS per se

    Still going to get hot out there. And it is slightly further forward and as near as I can tell not as solidly mounted to the barrel as a pinned front sight gas block. The more wiggly bits you have, no matter how firm they seem, the more you are likely to get expansion as the whole thing heats up. I am sure you are talking an effect of not more than an inch or so at 100yds and more wandering from the barrel itself distorting under heat. But it is one more thing.

    Also a standard pinned gas block sight is triangular. It is going to have a hard time solidly catching something. This thing will absolutely hook anything that looks at it funny.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Still going to get hot out there. And it is slightly further forward and as near as I can tell not as solidly mounted to the barrel as a pinned front sight gas block. The more wiggly bits you have, no matter how firm they seem, the more you are likely to get expansion as the whole thing heats up. I am sure you are talking an effect of not more than an inch or so at 100yds and more wandering from the barrel itself distorting under heat. But it is one more thing.

    Also a standard pinned gas block sight is triangular. It is going to have a hard time solidly catching something. This thing will absolutely hook anything that looks at it funny.

    As opposed to the drift you get on the free float when you flex holding it. As for getting caught name one sight whether iron or otherwise that does not present as a catching hazard. How much drift from expanding SS do you think there will be, do you muzzle devices lose timing after you put them on???
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    As opposed to the drift you get on the free float when you flex holding it. As for getting caught name one sight whether iron or otherwise that does not present as a catching hazard. How much drift from expanding SS do you think there will be, do you muzzle devices lose timing after you put them on???

    Yeah, someone calculated the drift with a free float handguard. With your typical one with a tight sling wrap exerting something like 30lbs of force I think is what he used (which is a lot) he calculated about 1” of POI shift at 100yds.

    You don’t loose timing as the thermal coefficient for most muzzle devices is the same. If it was significantly lower, you would have them loosen over time. Aluminum is higher Thanh steel as is titanium, so both tighten down. I know when I went to take off a KAK micro can I had to put WAY more force to break it loose than I used to tighten it down (at a guess I torqued it to about 30ft-lbs putting it on and I had to put about 100-120ft-lbs to break it loose).

    Steel is about 7.2x10^-6

    That is percent change per degree centigrade. So an increase in temp of 100C means an increase in size of about .072%

    Based on your typical sight radius, if the total height of that front sight is about an inch, you are talking a POI shift of about .2”. Not huge, but if the sight is taller, it is more shift. If the sight is hotter, it is more shift. If the coefficient or expansion is higher (7.2 is the low end for steel, it ranges up to about 13 IIRC), the shift is higher. You are probably talking more like 1/2” per 100C based on what looks like its actual height and that the whole thing isn’t going to heat up by that much.

    Which BTW is part of the reason why pencil barrels with gas block iron sights also are going to experience wander and why it is almost universally POI shifting UP. Dump a couple of mags through one and the front sight is going to heat up and shift and the sight itself likely isn’t stress relieved. A lot is from the barrel warping with heat, but a lot is the sight warping with heat as well.

    Not saying that is particularly life altering, but it is something to consider even if you disregard it.

    On the catching, that is way easier to catch on things than most other design I’ve seen and I’d still be concerned about getting it properly indexed so it wasn’t canted on install.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Yeah, someone calculated the drift with a free float handguard. With your typical one with a tight sling wrap exerting something like 30lbs of force I think is what he used (which is a lot) he calculated about 1” of POI shift at 100yds.

    You don’t loose timing as the thermal coefficient for most muzzle devices is the same. If it was significantly lower, you would have them loosen over time. Aluminum is higher Thanh steel as is titanium, so both tighten down. I know when I went to take off a KAK micro can I had to put WAY more force to break it loose than I used to tighten it down (at a guess I torqued it to about 30ft-lbs putting it on and I had to put about 100-120ft-lbs to break it loose).

    Steel is about 7.2x10^-6

    That is percent change per degree centigrade. So an increase in temp of 100C means an increase in size of about .072%

    Based on your typical sight radius, if the total height of that front sight is about an inch, you are talking a POI shift of about .2”. Not huge, but if the sight is taller, it is more shift. If the sight is hotter, it is more shift. If the coefficient or expansion is higher (7.2 is the low end for steel, it ranges up to about 13 IIRC), the shift is higher. You are probably talking more like 1/2” per 100C based on what looks like its actual height and that the whole thing isn’t going to heat up by that much.

    Which BTW is part of the reason why pencil barrels with gas block iron sights also are going to experience wander and why it is almost universally POI shifting UP. Dump a couple of mags through one and the front sight is going to heat up and shift and the sight itself likely isn’t stress relieved. A lot is from the barrel warping with heat, but a lot is the sight warping with heat as well.

    Not saying that is particularly life altering, but it is something to consider even if you disregard it.

    On the catching, that is way easier to catch on things than most other design I’ve seen and I’d still be concerned about getting it properly indexed so it wasn’t canted on install.
    Awesome post, thank you for sharing. Maybe I'll just stick with magpul mbus pros as BUIS and continue using red dots, low power variable optics, etc for primary haha
     

    kohburn

    Resident MacGyver
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2008
    6,796
    PAX NAS / CP MCAS
    concentric circles are a more natural alignment method, and I prefer them. the sights look good but i'm not sure they look 2-3 times the normal price good.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Yeah, someone calculated the drift with a free float handguard. With your typical one with a tight sling wrap exerting something like 30lbs of force I think is what he used (which is a lot) he calculated about 1” of POI shift at 100yds.

    You don’t loose timing as the thermal coefficient for most muzzle devices is the same. If it was significantly lower, you would have them loosen over time. Aluminum is higher Thanh steel as is titanium, so both tighten down. I know when I went to take off a KAK micro can I had to put WAY more force to break it loose than I used to tighten it down (at a guess I torqued it to about 30ft-lbs putting it on and I had to put about 100-120ft-lbs to break it loose).

    Steel is about 7.2x10^-6

    That is percent change per degree centigrade. So an increase in temp of 100C means an increase in size of about .072%

    Based on your typical sight radius, if the total height of that front sight is about an inch, you are talking a POI shift of about .2”. Not huge, but if the sight is taller, it is more shift. If the sight is hotter, it is more shift. If the coefficient or expansion is higher (7.2 is the low end for steel, it ranges up to about 13 IIRC), the shift is higher. You are probably talking more like 1/2” per 100C based on what looks like its actual height and that the whole thing isn’t going to heat up by that much.

    Which BTW is part of the reason why pencil barrels with gas block iron sights also are going to experience wander and why it is almost universally POI shifting UP. Dump a couple of mags through one and the front sight is going to heat up and shift and the sight itself likely isn’t stress relieved. A lot is from the barrel warping with heat, but a lot is the sight warping with heat as well.

    Not saying that is particularly life altering, but it is something to consider even if you disregard it.

    On the catching, that is way easier to catch on things than most other design I’ve seen and I’d still be concerned about getting it properly indexed so it wasn’t canted on install.

    from the video it looks to be easier to index then many muzzle devices that require shims or the like to index right. At least with a jamb nut you can readjust incrementally instead of adding or subtracting shims.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    concentric circles are a more natural alignment method, and I prefer them. the sights look good but i'm not sure they look 2-3 times the normal price good.

    The sights alone I would agree that is why for my Faux Dissapator build I was looking at he muzzle device and sight combo. Looking at lets say closest comparable is the Magpul pro sights $75 for the front and $100 for the rears and throw in decent comp or brake you are in the $320 range after s/h. But since I want to go Dissaptor Look I would have to mount mag pul at the end of 16" handguard or get a dissapator barrel and run gas block rail with riser
     

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