i really don't know the LAW. please help.

fabsroman · Oct 20, 2016

mopar92 said:
Do you remember firewall the .gov agent who had a suppressor he wanted to register post manufacture?

Mere semantics. lol Before, after, does it really matter?

I've had my 14" shotgun barrel sitting at my FFL since the beginning of May waiting for my stamp on my Form 1. Might be able to get it by Christmas. Already took care of the 922(r) issue on that shotgun so I can put the new barrel and collapsing stock on it when I get the stamp.

Just way too many rules and regulations, and not just on firearms. Job security for me I guess. Freaking silver lining.

d33rhunt3r · Oct 20, 2016

Do you remember firewall the .gov agent who had a suppressor he wanted to register post manufacture?

clandestine said:
LOL. Great memory. I had forgotten until you mentioned that guy.

Do what now? I'm missing something.

woodstock · Oct 20, 2016

so in summary, if my brother in law, who is a resident of virginia, wanted to bring his bushmaster on his next visit so we can go to HAP-BAKER in carroll county to help him sight it in, could be potentially looking at a similar situation that many have experienced while traveling into new jersey? unreal!

clandestine · Oct 20, 2016

fabsroman said:
Mere semantics. lol Before, after, does it really matter?

I've had my 14" shotgun barrel sitting at my FFL since the beginning of May waiting for my stamp on my Form 1. Might be able to get it by Christmas. Already took care of the 922(r) issue on that shotgun so I can put the new barrel and collapsing stock on it when I get the stamp.

Just way too many rules and regulations, and not just on firearms. Job security for me I guess. Freaking silver lining.

I dont think you understand. They guy Mopar referenced posessed a silencer that was never registered. Admitted to having no paperwork and said he was ok because he worked for the federal government.

The guy was a tool.

You have said it here before. People come to experts like you (attorney) for legal advice, and when they dont hear what they want to hear they say you dont know what you are talking about. I really think these people have mental issues because its not rational behavior.

clandestine · Oct 20, 2016

woodstock said:
so in summary, if my brother in law, who is a resident of virginia, wanted to bring his bushmaster on his next visit so we can go to HAP-BAKER in carroll county to help him sight it in, could be potentially looking at a similar situation that many have experienced while traveling into new jersey? unreal!

Its been answered several times in the thread. Seek help. Seriously.

jimbobborg · Oct 20, 2016

davsco said:
curious, has anyone been charged or convicted under these laws? just seems like enforceability is difficult at best, trying to prove when guns and parts and assemblies were bought / assembled?

This guy.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=197559

Also, when I ask if FSA 2013 meant I couldn't bring one of my ARs to a class, since it was built last year and has an M4 barrel on it, I was poo pooed.

fabsroman · Oct 20, 2016

clandestine said:
I dont think you understand. They guy Mopar referenced posessed a silencer that was never registered. Admitted to having no paperwork and said he was ok because he worked for the federal government.

The guy was a tool.

You have said it here before. People come to experts like you (attorney) for legal advice, and when they dont hear what they want to hear they say you dont know what you are talking about. I really think these people have mental issues because its not rational behavior.

Nope. I understand completely. I was being sarcastic. I fully understand that one needs an approved Form 1 with a pdf stamp or actual stamp in hand (which depends on the method of application), before building a suppressor. I fully understand that one needs an approved Form 4 with a pdf stamp or actual stamp in hand, before taking possession of a suppressor bought from a dealer. I fully understand that dealers need to complete a Form 3 just to transfer the suppressor between dealers.

Lastly, and most importantly, while I do not have personal knowledge of the discussion/posting that you and Mopar are referring to, I fully understand that the guy was a tool, and most likely still is. It is posting stuff like that, that gets others in trouble, and possibly oneself.

You want to guess how many times I have had clients tell me that I have no idea what I am talking about? Clients are always shopping for tax preparers that will take the deductions that they think they are entitled to. Their friend is doing it, they heard it from a friend, etc., so it must be legal. When I show them the IRS publication expressly forbidding it, they tell me that it must be an old publication. Yep, I went through all the effort to photoshop the current year on it just because I do NOT want them to take a completely legal deduction. It is just as bad on the criminal side of things. Everybody is a criminal law expert, even without a law degree.

fabsroman · Oct 20, 2016

d33rhunt3r said:
Do you remember firewall the .gov agent who had a suppressor he wanted to register post manufacture?

Do what now? I'm missing something.

If you want to build or buy a suppressor, you need to obtain approval from the BATFE BEFORE actually taking possession of it or building it. There is also something called constructive possession.

https://blog.princelaw.com/2009/09/01/florida-man-arrested-for-constructive-possession-of-an-sbr/

d33rhunt3r · Oct 20, 2016

fabsroman said:
If you want to build or buy a suppressor, you need to obtain approval from the BATFE BEFORE actually taking possession of it or building it. There is also something called constructive possession.

https://blog.princelaw.com/2009/09/01/florida-man-arrested-for-constructive-possession-of-an-sbr/

Yeah I'm familiar with the process and laws. I'm just missing the context of the person that was referenced in the post. But I'm guessing he built a can without the stamp?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

RoadDawg · Oct 20, 2016

woodstock said:
so in summary, if my brother in law, who is a resident of virginia, wanted to bring his bushmaster on his next visit so we can go to HAP-BAKER in carroll county to help him sight it in, could be potentially looking at a similar situation that many have experienced while traveling into new jersey? unreal!

Not to be too harsh... But...
There are several Bail Bond Companies in the area...

Two attorneys and some good folks who are in the FFL industry have very completely answered your question.

Instead of your BIL bringing his Bushmaster here and getting both of you locked up... Why not just drive to Virginia [America] and sight in his rifle there.

The other legal option would be for him to drive from Virginia to Pennsylvania and meet you at a range just a few miles up I-83... FOPA should cover him as long as his destination was not inside the state of Maryland.

StantonCree · Oct 20, 2016

Between this thread, the Swahili meat beetle vs the Arminian tree hopper, and the Facebook thread Woodstocks threads are quickly becoming my favorite

If you have Twitter I'd like to follow you

woodstock · Oct 20, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
Between this thread, the Swahili meat beetle vs the Arminian tree hopper, and the Facebook thread Woodstocks threads are quickly becoming my favorite

If you have Twitter I'd like to follow you

me? twitter? good lord never! too inept, it moves way to fast for my brain and eyes.

as for the suggestion to go to virginia, that is an option, but because i have a dog, it would be a lengthy drive, a one day visit. whereas when he and the SIL visit, they stay the weekend. aside from all of that...

...i was sincere in my efforts at explaining and asking the question i did. those who chimed in were of great help but their answers created more questions on my end, and the the replies seemed to take a somewhat hostile turn. hey, if it pisses you off, don't click on the thread or better yet, understand that some of us aren't as "smart" as you and are looking for answers that can be verified. fabsroman and esqappellate were very helpful. i spent the better half of two hours looking for concrete laws on the books to explain to my BIL before we plan a shoot at HAP. as a resident, i thought i would make it abundantly clear, the ambiguity of OUR state laws are written, much in the same way other states have written their laws (think new joisey) and i wanted some guidance on the topic. as one poster said, "i need help, seriously..." how is that to be interpreted? rest assured, i would have kept digging on the subject but fabs & esq settled the discussion for me by citing actual LAW documents that i was looking for in these last few days. cheers :beer:

Art3 · Oct 20, 2016

Just a thought...what if Woodstock has his own legal pre2013 assault AR? Could his buddy just bring the upper (which is not a firearm) into MD and use Woodstock's lower to sight it in? :shrug:

woodstock · Oct 20, 2016

Art3 said:
Just a thought...what if Woodstock has his own legal pre2013 assault AR? Could his buddy just bring the upper (which is not a firearm) into MD and use Woodstock's lower to sight it in?

thanks and a great question. but um, what is an "assault AR"?

mopar92 · Oct 20, 2016

woodstock said:
thanks and a great question. but um, what is an "assault AR"?

An AR-15 that is registered pre 10/1/13. I didn't think of this until rereading this thread but it's perfectly legal to borrow a pre ban rifle and use the lower reciever. I have a pre ban of you want to borrow it.

You can mount your relatives upper and sight it in easy peasy lemon squeezy. I even have the sight adjustment tool you'll need if it has iron sights that are standard AR type.

woodstock · Oct 20, 2016

mopar92 said:
An AR-15 that is registered pre 10/1/13. I didn't think of this until rereading this thread but it's perfectly legal to borrow a pre ban rifle and use the lower reciever. I have a pre ban of you want to borrow it.

You can mount your relatives upper and sight it in easy peasy lemon squeezy. I even have the sight adjustment tool you'll need if it has iron sights that are standard AR type.

THANK YOU very much MOPAR92! your generosity is much appreciated. your statements regarding borrowing a pre-ban is monumental. in addition to the ambiguity of md. law mentioned, i am trying to understand the logic behind the ban in the first place? he can't bring a complete bushmaster AR into the state, but he can bring the upper, barrow a lower that is not banned and everything is legal? my head is swirling with more questions. perhaps a PM?

above all, thank you, but in light of my discovery there, it is a good chance he won't bring his "banned" gun or gun parts to md. i would gander to say the ice is thin in places, places the commoner doesn't know about. this is WRONG, bottom line, changes HAVE TO BE made.

mopar92 · Oct 20, 2016

woodstock said:
THANK YOU very much MOPAR92! your generosity is much appreciated. your statements regarding borrowing a pre-ban is monumental. in addition to the ambiguity of md. law mentioned, i am trying to understand the logic behind the ban in the first place? he can't bring a complete bushmaster AR into the state, but he can bring the upper, barrow a lower that is not banned and everything is legal? my head is swirling with more questions. perhaps a PM?

above all, thank you, but in light of my discovery there, it is a good chance he won't bring his "banned" gun or gun parts to md. i would gander to say the ice is thin in places, places the commoner doesn't know about. this is WRONG, bottom line, changes HAVE TO BE made.

Give me a call at 443 605 884six and I can explain it better.

Blaster229 · Oct 20, 2016

Aren't you some sort of Maryland certified instructor?

woodstock · Oct 20, 2016

Blaster229 said:
Aren't you some sort of Maryland certified instructor?

handgun instructor. licensed by the state, certified by the NRA, MAG certified and trained by MASSAD AYOOB, DAVID KENIK, BEN KELKYE, JEANIE GRANT, CARLO PIRAZZI, TERRY ROBINSON, and to throw a few more in would just piss you off. rifles weren't my thing, then they were. they are now. questions? :smoke:

special thanks to mopar92.

fabsroman · Oct 21, 2016

mopar92 said:
An AR-15 that is registered pre 10/1/13. I didn't think of this until rereading this thread but it's perfectly legal to borrow a pre ban rifle and use the lower reciever. I have a pre ban of you want to borrow it.

You can mount your relatives upper and sight it in easy peasy lemon squeezy. I even have the sight adjustment tool you'll need if it has iron sights that are standard AR type.

It isn't legal, as esqappellate pointed out.

It is illegal to possess an assault weapon after 10/1/2013 unless you possessed it prior to 10/1/2013. So, since the op did not possess your pre-ban lower, in the form of an "assault weapon", prior to 10/1/2013, he cannot possess it now. You cannot loan it to him, I cannot hold it for you for a day or two, etc.if it is in "assault weapon" format. About the only person/entity that could possibly hold that pre-ban lower from you while it is in "assault weapon" format would be an FFL holding it on consignment to sell it out of state.

Now, if the gun were reconfigured into a post-ban format, like an HBAR or a pistol, then possession would be legal. However, as you pointed out to me a while ago, unless it starts out as a pistol, it cannot be changed back to a pistol. So, if your lower started as a pistol, you could loan it to the OP as a pistol, then you could loan it to the OP. However, that brings up the question as to whether the op's brother in-law's upper is an SBR upper with a barrel shorter than 16".

Anyway, here is the section of the law that you need to worry about:

§4–303.
(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(1) transport an assault weapon into the State; or
(2) possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receive an assault weapon.
(b) (1) A person who lawfully possessed an assault pistol before June 1, 1994, and who registered the assault pistol with the Secretary of State Police before August 1, 1994, may:
(i) continue to possess and transport the assault pistol; or
(ii) while carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the assault pistol, transport the assault pistol directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station if the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the person is transporting the assault pistol in accordance with a court order and the assault pistol is unloaded.
(2) A licensed firearms dealer may continue to possess, sell, offer for sale, or transfer an assault long gun or a copycat weapon that the licensed firearms dealer lawfully possessed on or before October 1, 2013.
(3) A person who lawfully possessed, has a purchase order for, or completed an application to purchase an assault long gun or a copycat weapon before October 1, 2013, may:
(i) possess and transport the assault long gun or copycat weapon; or
(ii) while carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the assault long gun or copycat weapon, transport the assault long gun or copycat weapon directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station if the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the person is transporting the assault long gun or copycat weapon in accordance with a court order and the assault long gun or copycat weapon is unloaded.

Simply put, the OP did not possess your assault weapon prior to 10/1/2013, so he cannot possess it now. Now, if you want to take a ride to the range with the OP and his brother in-law, and allow his brother in-law to attach the upper in question to your lower, while you shoot the gun, that would be alright. Now, allowing the OP or his brother in-law to shoot the gun in your presence might be a gray area as to whether they have taken possession of your "assault weapon" when you hand it to them.

Kudos to you though for offering up your receiver.

i really don't know the LAW. please help.

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