CCW shooters vs police.

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    Biggfoot44

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    33,252
    Y'all are making this too complicated. The answer is right there in UCR . Felons killed by LE. Felons killed by Citizens .


    **********

    But as long as we're going down the semantic rabbit hole :

    General Public are more likely to be unexpectedly violent crime victims .

    LE ( uniformed , Armed Security too ) more likely to delibertly engage in situations known to be dangerous , on purpose .
     
    Gryphon

    Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    No fair danb, you waited until Road Dawg and Blaster229 exited the building before you made the OP yesterday. Now this thread isn't even popcorn worthy! :D
     
    outrider58

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    50,043
    I did notice RD's new 'tag line'. I missed Blaster's. Somewhere out there, there are two Alphas sitting on the steps, pouting.

    Maybe the "Swatting" thread? I bailed a while ago.
     
    ToolAA

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,588
    God's Country
    3paul10 said:
    How many lives are saved by a CCW holder? That's what's important.
    Click to expand...


    Very important, but probably a number that we could never know. It’s sort of like the question how many lives are saved by police officers? Or how many lives could be saved by having more police officers? You could count up all incidents where a cops actions thwarted a criminal activity that directly or indirectly endangered the public, but how many lives are saved by there just being a police presence in the first place.

    Thats the big question. How many potential victims of violent crime would not become victims if criminals simply assumed that every potential victim had a reasonable probability of bring armed and able to defend themselves.
     
    Right2Carry

    Right2Carry

    Active Member
    Feb 27, 2009
    695
    District 32
    If I was a criminal looking to live off people by stealing and robbing them, I would prefer a place where I'll less likely be confronted with resistance from a citizen. My idea place is where citizens are unarmed. Look at the cities like Chicago and Baltimore were they have very strict gun laws, crime and murder happen almost daily. The criminals remain armed, and the poor law abiding citizens of those cities are left defenseless.
     
    adit

    adit

    ReMember
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 20, 2013
    19,691
    DE
    Right2Carry said:
    If I was a criminal looking to live off people by stealing and robbing them, I would prefer a place where I'll less likely be confronted with resistance from a citizen. My idea place is where citizens are unarmed. Look at the cities like Chicago and Baltimore were they have very strict gun laws, crime and murder happen almost daily. The criminals remain armed, and the poor law abiding citizens of those cities are left defenseless.
    Click to expand...

    That is why criminals thrive in those areas.
     
    Pinecone

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    t84a said:
    Agreed. I rarely agree with either of them but I enjoy their posts and both seem to be great guys.
    Click to expand...

    I agree with each of them a number of times.

    But when I don't agree, I REALLY don't agree. :)

    But I have learned things from both of them.
     
    hunter3705

    hunter3705

    Active Member
    Jan 8, 2010
    100
    Halethorpe
    I've always felt that the real value of CCWs is the deterrent they create. When sociopathic animals know that anyone could be lawfully armed - and many probably are - they're more likely to act like civilized humans. It makes them paranoid and uncertain, and that's a good thing.
     
    danb

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    hunter3705 said:
    I've always felt that the real value of CCWs is the deterrent they create. When sociopathic animals know that anyone could be lawfully armed - and many probably are - they're more likely to act like civilized humans. It makes them paranoid and uncertain, and that's a good thing.
    Click to expand...


    Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

    over 90% of defense gun uses end without a shot fired. So says the Department of Justice, anyway. There are at least 4x as many defense gun uses as there are homicides in the USA. Probably more, but it depends on who you ask. The low end (4x) is put out by a reliably anti-gun org, so I like to quote it since its probably a minimum.

    The problem with deterrence, like vaccines, is that success is measured by the absence of something (crime, disease). Measuring the absence of something is straightforward in a clinical setting, where you can control who gets the treatment. Measuring the success of a deterrent is extremely hard. How do we know what would have happened if Reagan had not built up the military in the 80s?
     
    Blaster229

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,604
    Glen Burnie
    rascal said:
    I think you have this backwards. Concealed carriers could as easily be said to be in more dangerous situations and more likely to be specifically targeted than cops.
    Click to expand...

    This has nothing to do with who is a victim. Cops get specifically called to situations with known criminals. CCW holders do not get called to dangerous situations.

    You would have to make the comparison as to how many cops get attacked just being in public (walking into a store, etc...) not on a call, compared to CCW citizens. That's probably impossible to do.

    Cops draw their weapons a zillion more times than CCWs and thus the likelihood of a shooting is going to go up.
     
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