MD Approved Firearm Question

BigTrain · Jan 14, 2019

Hey all,

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but I can't seem to find it, so sorry for the repetition.

I purchased a Kimber Micro 9 ESV on line. I know the Kimber Micro 9 is an approved gun, so I wasn't worried. But the ESV is brand new, and not on the list.

The differences are purely cosmetic, and I just hadn't realized how the law works. I didn't realize that simple color changes and such required separate approvals. So the gun is sitting at the shop, and I've been told that if I petition to have the gun approved and the state says no, they confiscate the weapon. Is that accurate?

So far, every version of the Micro 9 has been approved, and I'm confident that the ESV will be too. But when is the question, and the shop isn't willing to hold it forever.

I can send it back to the original dealer, but then I'm out quite a chunk of change with nothing to show for it but an expensive lesson. Any suggestions? Any way to find out if the ESV is pending approval? Any other options?

Thanks for any advice, folks. And, again, sorry if this is a repeat question.

Not_an_outlaw · Jan 14, 2019

Not to make you feel bad, but I bought a Mossberg shock wave that was OD Green. The black one was approved, but the OD Green wasn't. Same identical gun. Anyway, I had to wait until it got on the list. Frightening.

DutchV · Jan 14, 2019

You can submit the form yourself. Not a big deal. I've got one pending right now. The form is barely two pages of dumb questions. If it really is just a new color, it'll be a Model Addition instead of a full review. They used to do them automatically but now they have to go to the committee. If they want to examine the gun, you'll have your dealer send it to Pikesville and they'll test fire it. That's not very likely in this case.

The state won't confiscate the gun if it gets denied. You'd just have to find a place to sell it off, like Gunbroker. The dealer can have all kinds of stuff - he just can't sell anything to you that's not on the roster.

BigTrain · Jan 14, 2019

Great info! Thanks a lot.

The guy at the shop said there was no guarantee the committee will even look at the request. Is that often the case?

Not_an_outlaw · Jan 14, 2019

BigTrain said:
Great info! Thanks a lot.

The guy at the shop said there was no guarantee the committee will even look at the request. Is that often the case?

Find a new dealer.

Rob R. · Jan 15, 2019

Call the lady who handles the Handgun roster.
Cosmetic changes can be added within a few days. I had this done a few times

Different sights, colors, minor cosmetic changes are A ok to be added without a petition.
If it is an all new model, slightly different size and function it will have to go thru the petition and board review route (2-3 months)

Hawkeye · Jan 15, 2019

BigTrain said:
Great info! Thanks a lot.

The guy at the shop said there was no guarantee the committee will even look at the request. Is that often the case?

The guy at the shop has no idea what he's talking about.

Rob R. said:
Call the lady who handles the Handgun roster.

Her name is Marlene Jenkins, and she is SUPER nice. (410) 653-4247, or marlene.jenkins@maryland.gov

And yes, if it's just a cosmetic change it should be very easy to get it added to the roster. Give her a call.

John from MD · Jan 15, 2019

Rob R. said:
Call the lady who handles the Handgun roster.
Cosmetic changes can be added within a few days. I had this done a few times

Different sights, colors, minor cosmetic changes are A ok to be added without a petition.
If it is an all new model, slightly different size and function it will have to go thru the petition and board review route (2-3 months)

THIS! I forget her name but she is one of the most helpful state employees I have ever met. I'm sure someone will come up with her name and number. :party29:

Biggfoot44 · Jan 15, 2019

The chances of being disapproved are essentially Zero . Worst case is waiting for next Board meeting, instead of Ms Jenkins just typing it in .

Biggfoot44 · Jan 15, 2019

PSA for Handgun purchasers -

Have conversations about all the hypothetical possibilities with FFLs in advance , before setting things in motion.

If you are ordering/ transfering a post 1996 pistol from out of state , carefully consult the Roster. ( Or buy pre- 1969 )

DutchV · Jan 15, 2019

The schedule for the Board meeting is published in advance. If you send a form in, they will add it to the next agenda. It does take awhile to get it through but they will get to it. Most guns get approved unless they fail during the test. Minutes of previous meetings are also available so you can see what they've approved and what has been denied.

I'd find a new dealer.

Rob R. · Jan 15, 2019

Hawkeye said:
The guy at the shop has no idea what he's talking about.

Her name is Marlene Jenkins, and she is SUPER nice. (410) 653-4247, or marlene.jenkins@maryland.gov

And yes, if it's just a cosmetic change it should be very easy to get it added to the roster. Give her a call.

John from MD said:
THIS! I forget her name but she is one of the most helpful state employees I have ever met. I'm sure someone will come up with her name and number.

Yes she is a superstar, extremely helpful gets a little busy at times so may need to do a follow up call to make sure she didn’t forget to process whatever it is you requested.

I even spent a portion of my evening with her down at the MSP campus to make sure the guns I needed to be added were processed in time for the next review and peace of mind my petitions would not get lost in the mail.
I had to drop off my Wear n Carry App anyhow which I also didn’t want to mysteriously disappear with a ton of personal info, so 2 birds 1 stone

BigTrain · Jan 17, 2019

Wow, even more evidence of what a great forum this is. I will call Ms. Jenkins tomorrow! Thanks so much for the help!

I do take one exception. John from MD, I am a state employee, and many of us are very, very helpful. For instance, my co-worker who is covering for me while I check this forum during work hours. Incredibly helpful guy!

Hold on a minute, I've got to delete all of these e-mails from tax payers. It's always Me-Me-Me with them. When am I going to even have time for my third and fifth coffee breaks?

(Seriously, all. Thanks a million for the help)

Hawkeye · Jan 17, 2019

Good luck with the pistol - it looks like a pretty cool gun.

somd_mustangs · Jan 17, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
PSA for Handgun purchasers -

Have conversations about all the hypothetical possibilities with FFLs in advance , before setting things in motion.

If you are ordering/ transfering a post 1996 pistol from out of state , carefully consult the Roster. ( Or buy pre- 1969 )

pre-1985 are exempt from roster, 1985 or later are subject to it.
Pre-1969 are C&R and don't require the HQL (but would also be exempt from the roster of course).

bankgunandpawn · Jan 17, 2019

I don't believe that Marlene will put something on the roster anymore, even if it is a different color. The next list is coming out early February I believe. So the next list will probably not come out until June. So you are probably looking at June before you would be able to get your gun.

John from MD · Jan 17, 2019

The problem with the system is that the board doesn't have to meet. Sometimes it has been two or three months before they meet to approved changes to the list. :mad54:

DutchV · Jan 17, 2019

John from MD said:
The problem with the system is that the board doesn't have to meet. Sometimes it has been two or three months before they meet to approved changes to the list.

The schedule is published. They meet four (4) times per year.

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizat...onBureau/LicensingDivision/HandgunRoster.aspx

If you send in a form, they will send you the Docket number of your request and the date of the meeting when it will be reviewed.

Next meeting is March 13th.

Palmaris · Jan 21, 2019

My son was on exact the same boat a month ago. That was about P210 Target. I talk to Marlene couple of times on the phone. She is really vey nice and helpfull. I even ask her if I can send petition to add P210 and I am not resident of MD-she told me go ahead. No restriction who can send petition. I still debating if I will send. I have no idea if there is a law which can be broken by me sending that petition. And there is no way to find out. So I am hesitated to do it.

Hawkeye · Jan 21, 2019

You aren't breaking any laws if you send a petition to get a handgun added to the roster. There isn't anything in the statute that says who can submit one.

That's MD PSC 5-404, the relevant part of which says:

(c) (1) The Board may place a handgun on the handgun roster on its own initiative.

(2) The Board shall place a handgun on the handgun roster on the successful petition of any person subject to subsections (d) and (e) of this section, unless a court, after all appeals are exhausted, has made a finding that the decision of the Board shall be affirmed.

(3) A petition to place a handgun on the handgun roster shall be submitted to the Board in writing in the form and manner that the Board requires.

(4) A person who petitions for placement of a handgun on the handgun roster has the burden of proving to the Board that the handgun should be placed on the handgun roster.

(d) (1) Within 45 days after receipt of a petition to place a handgun on the handgun roster, the Board shall:

(i) deny the petition in writing, stating the reasons for denial; or

(ii) approve the petition and publish a description of the handgun in the Maryland Register, including notice that any objection to the handgun’s inclusion on the handgun roster shall be filed with the Board within 30 days.

(2) If the Board fails to deny or approve a petition within the time required under paragraph (1) of this subsection, the petition shall be considered denied.

(e) (1) If the Board denies a petition to place a handgun on the handgun roster, the Board shall notify the petitioner by certified mail, return receipt requested.

(2) The petitioner may request a hearing within 15 days after the date that the Board’s denial letter is received.

(3) (i) If the petitioner requests a hearing under paragraph (2) of this subsection, within a reasonable time not to exceed 90 days after receiving the request, the Board shall:

1. hold a hearing on the petition; and

2. issue a written final decision on the petition.

(ii) The Board shall provide notice of the hearing in accordance with Title 10, Subtitle 2 of the State Government Article.

(iii) At a hearing held under this paragraph, the petitioner has the burden of proving to the Board that the handgun should be placed on the handgun roster because the handgun is useful for legitimate sporting activities, self-protection, or law enforcement purposes.

(4) Any party of record who is aggrieved may appeal within 30 days after a final decision of the Board in accordance with Title 10, Subtitle 2 of the State Government Article.

As you can see, there's nothing in there that states who may or may not petition the board.

MD Approved Firearm Question

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