starting reloading for long range rifle

Major03 said:

You mean to tell me it's the Indian and not the arrow?!?!?!? That taking all those dollars and all that time invested in reloading tools and dies and presses on the bench could have been better spent on the range actually shooting!?!?!?!?!?!

I'm being sarcastic because of course that's true. Confidence and the ability to adjust to the environmental conditions has a far more profound effect on your accuracy and precision, and it's hard to short cut what it takes to get experience.

Reloading is itself it's own hobby...each reloader needs to determine for themselves what their goals are and what they're trying to get out of it. I like the tinkering of reloading, even if in reality it doesn't really make me that much of a better shooter or save me that much money.

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Due to participation in several competition venues, I got looking into it.

And the rule of thumb is, it is 90% person and 10% equipment.

But most people spent 90% of their time, money, and effort on equipment, and only 10% on themselves.

I really saw this when I was shooing USPSA. I did a 3 day course with Ron Avery, and that alone took me from a mid-pack C shooter to a winning B shooter.

And people noticed and asked. So I told them. They would ask how much the course was, and I told them ($450 for the course, plus ammo, this was in the 90s). And they would say, oh, that is expensive. But then to proceed to show and tell me about the latest gadget they bought to shoot better.

dist1646 said:

Have you tried coaching a good shooter during a practice or team match? It is amazing how much you can learn by doing it! I learned a great deal this way, no book or video can compare.

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Or have a really good shooter coach you a bit.

dist1646 said:

Never think you are not good enough to coach. I found that you are only not good enough until you do it. It is a learning process and it sounds like you and your buddy may have a perfect opportunity to learn and improve each other's skills. Observing conditions through the spotting scope and seeing where the bullet impacts on the target is about the fastest way I know of to make significant improvement. Who ever you are coaching needs to be honest about their shot call too. If they make a bad shot, they should tell you where they called the shot. I was fortunate enough to shoot with and coach some really good shooters, like John Harrison and that made my learning curve much shorter. As a rule of thumb, I generally make full value corrections. As John once told me, "An 8 at 9:00 is as good as an 8 at 3:00", so there is no reason not to make full corrections. Best of luck with your shoot tomorrow!

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I would say that is more spotting than coaching.

dist1646 said:

Never think you are not good enough to coach. I found that you are only not good enough until you do it. It is a learning process and it sounds like you and your buddy may have a perfect opportunity to learn and improve each other's skills. Observing conditions through the spotting scope and seeing where the bullet impacts on the target is about the fastest way I know of to make significant improvement. Who ever you are coaching needs to be honest about their shot call too. If they make a bad shot, they should tell you where they called the shot. I was fortunate enough to shoot with and coach some really good shooters, like John Harrison and that made my learning curve much shorter. As a rule of thumb, I generally make full value corrections. As John once told me, "An 8 at 9:00 is as good as an 8 at 3:00", so there is no reason not to make full corrections. Best of luck with your shoot tomorrow!

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So new gun performed well, 1st relay was 197-6x, I was happy. Then the wind picked up and I was watching the flags and failed bad, 187-3x. 2nd relay of the day was the most inconsistent wind of the day. Guys that typically win the 1k yard shoots were in the low 190s. To be honest I shot 2 8s (I never shoot an 8), and was trying different holds and seeing what happened. Most of my misses were out the right and low. Figuring out what a headwind will do, was interesting to say the least.

3rd relay, 191-3x...I didnt look at the flags once and just watched mirage. Mirage was more consistent but there were 3 shots that I couldn't tell what the mirage was doing and pulled the trigger anyway, each time pulled a 9.

Ended 575 -12x, horrible score but learned alot. Fun time shooting at 1k, it is an entire different game than midrange.

Pinecone said:

I would say that is more spotting than coaching.

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With a good shooter like John, you give him the wind call and he executes the shot. When the target comes back up, you can see if your call was good by the shot location. If the shot location is off and he says the shot was centered, you learn what the condition was actually worth. You get to see the effects of all sorts of different conditions over time by this process. Normally, I can keep a reasonably good shooter inside the 10 ring and a really good shooter well inside that. One other thing that is important is that both shooter and coach understand what they are communicating to each other. The terms used have to be clear in their meaning to both.

Spotting is simply noting shot location, nothing more.

Speed3 said:

So new gun performed well, 1st relay was 197-6x, I was happy. Then the wind picked up and I was watching the flags and failed bad, 187-3x. 2nd relay of the day was the most inconsistent wind of the day. Guys that typically win the 1k yard shoots were in the low 190s. To be honest I shot 2 8s (I never shoot an 8), and was trying different holds and seeing what happened. Most of my misses were out the right and low. Figuring out what a headwind will do, was interesting to say the least.

3rd relay, 191-3x...I didnt look at the flags once and just watched mirage. Mirage was more consistent but there were 3 shots that I couldn't tell what the mirage was doing and pulled the trigger anyway, each time pulled a 9.

Ended 575 -12x, horrible score but learned alot. Fun time shooting at 1k, it is an entire different game than midrange.

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Sounds like you had a good session at the range. I know what you are saying when you are talking about the flags and mirage. Back around 2000 or so, I was shooting at Perry and a Marine Team shooter was scoring me. I was shooting 10's and X's when midway through the string at 600, an 8 bit me. I didn't see anything different through my spotting scope so, I didn't make a correction, maybe it was me. Went right back to 10's and X's. When the match was over, the Marine told me what had happened. Conditions were the same when I scoped them but, for that shot, the flags dropped just as I got on the sights and broke the shot. The flags raised again just after and everything looked the same in the spotting scope. Never would have known that if the Marine had not told me.
Another time at Perry, on the 300yd line, I watched the flags all going one way but the mirage was going the opposite way. I based my dope on the mirage because it was the condition my bullets would be traveling through. When the targets came back up, you could hear all the groans of disappointment from the other shooters up and down the line. They had based their dope on the flags and lost a lot of points. Even though I didn't get it exactly right, nine 10's and a 9 for a 99-0X was much better than those around me.

dist1646 said:

With a good shooter like John, you give him the wind call and he executes the shot. When the target comes back up, you can see if your call was good by the shot location. If the shot location is off and he says the shot was centered, you learn what the condition was actually worth. You get to see the effects of all sorts of different conditions over time by this process. Normally, I can keep a reasonably good shooter inside the 10 ring and a really good shooter well inside that. One other thing that is important is that both shooter and coach understand what they are communicating to each other. The terms used have to be clear in their meaning to both.

Spotting is simply noting shot location, nothing more.

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You do spotting differently then.

What you describe above is what a good spotter does, IMO.

Pinecone said:

You do spotting differently then.

What you describe above is what a good spotter does, IMO.

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We are probably talking about the same thing, just using different terms.