Is this a NJ thing or a CYA thing?

Doctor_M · Sep 28, 2015

Noticed something I hadn't seen before: An FFL on Gunbroker is listing several Civil War era cap and ball pistols for sale, but is requiring either an FFL 01 or FFL 03 for shipping. First I heard of any license being required for a black powder pistol.... but then again he is in NJ, so I guess anything is possible.

Anyone know if this is an actual requirement of NJ or just an FFL being overly cautious? Not looking to flame the guy... his auction, his rules... but I sure don't want go down that path if I don't have to.

Assuming that I bought one on my C&R, I wouldn't even be required to log it in since it isn't by definition a C&R... so not sure what this accomplishes other than makes the seller feel better.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=510736225

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=510736770

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=510737064

swinokur · Sep 28, 2015

I was under the impression anything before 1899 is an antique and not considered a firearm under 18 USC 922

may be I'm wrong.

Reptile · Sep 28, 2015

swinokur said:
I was under the impression anything before 1899 is an antique and not considered a firearm under 18 USC 922

may be I'm wrong.

I believe the problem is that "antique" is a federal definition which the states are not obligated to accept. That leaves a lot of room for mischief.

Doctor_M · Sep 28, 2015

The dealer did answer my question and it appears to be a NJ requirement.... he isn't happy about having to do it and seems to realize that it will cut down his market for what should be cash and carry items.

Maryland's new State Motto.... "At least we ain't Jersey.... yet".

jjbduke2004 · Sep 28, 2015

In NJ they are considered firearms.

swinokur · Sep 28, 2015

of course they are.

:sad20:

Blacksmith101 · Sep 28, 2015

Remember in NJ the guy arrested for a flintlock pistol! Stay away from NJ.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/18/flintlock-from-1700s-could-land-elderly-nj-man-in-prison/

BeoBill · Sep 28, 2015

In NJ a Pop Tart is considered a weapon. It IS a police state.

platoonDaddy · Sep 28, 2015

When my hunting partner died (South Jersey) as the executor, I ended up being responsible for thousands (I mean thousands) of HP rounds. As you are aware, illegal in NJ. Wasn't worth getting caught transporting them back to MD. The local FFL that ended up with all the estate firearms to sell, had me box them up, call him with the number of boxes and time of departure to his shop. He logged that info and off I went, of course staying within the speed limit.

Nov or Dec of every year, the local SWAT visits the store for duds and cases like my friends. They use the ammo for demo practice.

Threeband · Sep 28, 2015

Simpsons, Ltd. has to sell cap-and-ball reproductions as modern handguns, because that's Illinois law.

Note: IL law considers modern black powder reproduction firearms to be modern guns, an 01 FFL is required for transfer.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=156_183

swinokur · Sep 29, 2015

HP ammo is not illegal in NJ.

http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_hollow.html

platoonDaddy · Sep 29, 2015

swinokur said:
HP ammo is not illegal in NJ.

http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_hollow.html

Interesting read, recall the PA guy with hollow points, note following link. The Jersey FFL specifically stated, HP illegal in Jersey.

http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2014/03/camden_police_arrest_pennsylvania_man_for_hollow_point_bullets.html

swinokur · Sep 29, 2015

Maybe thy should check with the NJSP before arresting people, although perhaps the guy was not in compliance with the statute, which is quite restrictive.
.

platoonDaddy · Sep 29, 2015

swinokur said:
Maybe thy should check with the NJSP before arresting people, although perhaps the guy was not in compliance with the statute, which is quite restrictive.
.

Based on what you have provided, for sure it is 'quite restrictive' and confusing. Maybe the FFL meant that I would have been crossing some boundary (probably not the right word) that was illegal. Therefore the call before transporting and time of departure.

Next time I am up there, will ask him for specifics on HP's.

swinokur · Sep 29, 2015

Yep, it would seem like simple transport out of state would be illegal according to the statute.

Doctor_M · Sep 29, 2015

What a hot steamy mess that state has become.

lazarus · Sep 30, 2015

swinokur said:
Yep, it would seem like simple transport out of state would be illegal according to the statute.

Except doesn't that fall under federal law then? Federal fire arms laws trump state law if you are transporting firearms across state lines. You can transport firearms that are not legal in that state, so long as they are transported per federal law and you are not stopping in the state (fuzzy if getting gas or a meal is okay, or overnighting). Same with not needing to comply with any state transportation laws so long as you comply with the federal ones and you are crossing the state (I'd assume once you are in your destination state you'd be required to follow their laws).

swinokur · Sep 30, 2015

Same rule applies when starting your journey.As long as you start in NJ, NJ law applies until you leave the state. The FOPA protects you while driving THROUGH a state, not starting in it. The law says "where legal to carry and possess". The exceptions don't mention travel so as long as youi are in NJ and not engaging in one of the aforementioned exceptions, you're breaking the NJ statute.

My opinion of course. YMMV

iH8DemLibz · Sep 30, 2015

BeoBill said:
In NJ a Pop Tart is considered a weapon. It IS a police state.

You can buy them by the crate too.

lazarus · Sep 30, 2015

No exceptions in NJ law about transporting between your properties, registered gunsmith or to/from a sale?

Is this a NJ thing or a CYA thing?

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