Why are SureFire Handgun Lights so Expensive?

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  • tkd4life

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 10, 2010
    1,737
    Southern Maryland
    Back to the OP, a huge part of the costs with something is development. Luckily for my sake, engineers get paid pretty well. In the case of surefire, they have Americans working on this stuff for a really long time to make it right. In the case of the knock off, someone in China buys the legit product and learns how to make it with (in most cases): substandard parts, materials, and manufacturing techniques. The savings are passed on to the customer.
     
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    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    Back to the OP, a huge part of the costs with something is development. Luckily for my sake, engineers get paid pretty well. In the case of surefire, they have Americans working on this stuff for a really long time to make it right. In the case of the knock off, someone in China buys the legit product and learns how to make it with (in most cases): substandard parts, materials, and manufacturing techniques. The savings is passed on to the customer.



    I totally get that. I work in R&D for a company that makes biological diagnostic equipment and the company spends a lot of money on making sure the products are right all of the way down to the smallest detail.
    One good piece of info that has come from this thread are recommendations for products that people trust that are more financially approachable.



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    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Surefire charges a high price because they sell a premium, reputable product that has passed military testing requirements (in some cases) and some people are willing to pay nearly anything to get such products. Their actual loaded cost per unit is arguably not really relevant to what pricing they set. That said, Surefire is not immune to market forces; they had some significant layoffs back in 2015, and their competition has only intensified since then. Combine that with a lot less military spending and a very soft civilian market, and I do wonder if Surefire won't eventually acquiesce to some price cuts, or maybe lower-priced LEO-market variants of their products (like the immensely successful Aimpoint PRO and Trijicon MRO products for those companies). Much like Colt was with the M16/M4, Surefire is very, very vulnerable to an outside competitor poaching their military market and eroding their brand mindshare.

    Just from a historical POV, Surefire got away with their pricing because shock-proofing an incandescent bulb is hard and requires real engineering. Where they're getting bit now is that shock-proofing an LED is much, much easier, so the barrier to entry to the WML market is much lower. Surefire has (arguably) been riding their reputation from their excellence in incandescent shock-proofing perhaps a little too long and far, and they're starting to pay for it.

    That said, as others have noted in this thread, there are a few other companies (Inforce, Streamlight, etc.) that sell excellent rifle and pistol WMLs that are not $250. Heck, you can buy a Surefire G2x with a VTAC mount and have a perfectly serviceable rifle light for $75... if you need a remote switch, a Streamlight 88059 is only a hundred bucks. Buy once, cry once is great if you're only buying once... if you're trying to outfit 5-10 rifles and 5-10 pistols, a budget is a real thing.
     

    Neot

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 11, 2009
    2,394
    South County
    Honestly I've had 3 Surefire flashlights (all duty ones) and they all still work. The oldest is 13 years old and the newest is 4 years old. The have been dropped, stepped on, kicked down steps, abused by my kids and guess what....they all still work. I know my father in law is of the mind set that he will just buy another cheap Chinese knock off when he needs it. If something happens at home in the middle of the night and I need to grab a light, it's going to be a quality one. Beyond Surefire I'd say a close second is Streamlight. I know a few people who have the Inforce weapons lights and said they hold up well but I don't have first hand experience with them. As the old adage goes, "cheap ain't good and good ain't cheap".
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    The price surefire sets is one reason why resellers are required to adhere to Surefire's MAP policy.

    MAP=Minimum advertised price.
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    I was looking at Streamlight and Inforce. Those are more in my price range. The first difference I noticed was Streamlight is aluminum and Inforce is polymer. Being a Glock owner, I understand how durable a good polymer can be. Any insights on how these brands compare to each other?


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    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I was looking at Streamlight and Inforce. Those are more in my price range. The first difference I noticed was Streamlight is aluminum and Inforce is polymer. Being a Glock owner, I understand how durable a good polymer can be. Any insights on how these brands compare to each other?
    They're both very good. I am skeptical that there's any real-world-usage durability difference between polymer and aluminum on a pistol WML... in both cases, I suspect the glass lens is the weakest link. The Streamlight is a more "proven" light, by dint of being around much longer.
     

    EndangeredMooseknuckle

    Abducted Cynic
    Jun 23, 2017
    120
    Southern MD, St. Marys
    I've made the mistake myself of depending on inferior products in the past. Since then I stick with the "you get what you pay for" concept. Others stated the difference, most important probably being inside the US R&D. On that note, majority of the inexpensive imported gear I've used failed within months.. so I wouldn't trust it in a self defense situation. The peace of mind is worth the extra money alone to me..
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    I was looking at Streamlight and Inforce. Those are more in my price range. The first difference I noticed was Streamlight is aluminum and Inforce is polymer. Being a Glock owner, I understand how durable a good polymer can be. Any insights on how these brands compare to each other?


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    Poking around the interwebs, you can find lots of hate for the inforce as not being very durable...especially in their clamp design. There's also a dramatic reduction in holster availability moving from the tlr1 to the inforce.

    Here's a pretty solid light review of the tlr1hl.
     

    zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon
    It's good stuff but far overpriced in my opinion. There are other makers out there with products just as good or better IMHO. Assembled in USA from sourced parts is a lot different from Made in the USA too. But is dependable and people recognize the name. And like so many things a lot of the market is driven by internet chatter which may or may not be accurate but it is listened to.
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    It's good stuff but far overpriced in my opinion. There are other makers out there with products just as good or better IMHO. Assembled in USA from sourced parts is a lot different from Made in the USA too. But is dependable and people recognize the name. And like so many things a lot of the market is driven by internet chatter which may or may not be accurate but it is listened to.



    That is why I preferred to hear the MDS chatter, because many of the people here have solid reputations and lots of experience.


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    lawdog89

    Active Member
    Mar 23, 2012
    296
    Germantown
    Whenever I ask someone why they charge so much the answer is usually, because somebody will pay it. Why does a dog lick his balls.....because he can.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    exactly. as soon as the demand drops, so will the price.
    Given that Surefire had layoffs in 2015 and prices seem to be as high as ever... I don't know about that. Surefire strikes me as the next Colt when you look at their business model. It does not take engineering genius to pot your electronics or make a durable battery compartment.

    This thread is inspiring me to order some Streamlight TacPros, honestly.

    EDIT: I don't want to seem like a SureFire hater, so let it be known that I love the G2/G3/6P lights.
     
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    Trepang

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2015
    3,310
    Southern Illinois
    Another Surefire fan here. Keep three G2X's on the boat, two on Glocks and on Colt and RRA ARs.
     

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    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,185
    The price surefire sets is one reason why resellers are required to adhere to Surefire's MAP policy.

    MAP=Minimum advertised price.


    JMHO on the topic...

    I adhere to a RPP. [Reasonable Pricing Policy]

    If I do not believe the price is reasonable for my needs... I do not allow any of my money to be spent on that company's products.

    And company policy which forces dealers to sell their products at a higher price than local market should have to support, tends to push me away from their products as well.

    I will not campaign against them for it. Nor, will I knock their products. I will simply shop other manufacturers for my needs. There are a host of folks out there who can't afford those prices for a flashlight... defensive use or otherwise. But then again... I don't currently use WMLs... And my EDC FL w/high beam, low beam, strobe, flood, and focused spotlight features, has been working very well for nearly two years... and it is on its second AA battery. It cost me a whopping $6.00 for shipping...
    So what if it's not the cool brand... it works.
    IMG_2675.jpg

    In the end... Folks should buy what ever their heart desires and their pocket can support... Even with R&D considered... I... just like the OP... still wonder what... other than the greed of the manufacturer and willingness of folks to pay high prices... allows them to set their prices so high?
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    JMHO on the topic...



    I adhere to a RPP. [Reasonable Pricing Policy]



    If I do not believe the price is reasonable for my needs... I do not allow any of my money to be spent on that company's products.



    And company policy which forces dealers to sell their products at a higher price than local market should have to support, tends to push me away from their products as well.



    I will not campaign against them for it. Nor, will I knock their products. I will simply shop other manufacturers for my needs. There are a host of folks out there who can't afford those prices for a flashlight... defensive use or otherwise. But then again... I don't currently use WMLs... And my EDC FL w/high beam, low beam, strobe, flood, and focused spotlight features, has been working very well for nearly two years... and it is on its second AA battery. It cost me a whopping $6.00 for shipping...

    So what if it's not the cool brand... it works.

    View attachment 208578



    In the end... Folks should buy what ever their heart desires and their pocket can support... Even with R&D considered... I... just like the OP... still wonder what... other than the greed of the manufacturer and willingness of folks to pay high prices... allows them to set their prices so high?



    I think your flashlight picture sort of answers that question. MacBooks are way more expensive than the laptops you can get for $300-$500 at Wal-Mart or Best Buy. I'm guessing that you spent the extra bucks on that MacBook because you had high expectations for performance and stability, and from what I know of Macs, you weren't disappointed. I'm not justifying the $300-$500 WML to myself, but I am saying that rational, money-conscious people will still pay a very high price for something they believe will give them exactly what they want with no compromises.


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    notfast

    Active Member
    Sep 3, 2012
    221
    Bel Air, MD
    ^^I have a few of these lights sitting around the house...They are well worth the price.

    However, I'll stick with my Surefires, Streamlights and Fenix when I need to do something more than look under the couch for a cat toy.

    Once you get a nice light, you'll never go back IMO.
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,185
    I think your flashlight picture sort of answers that question. MacBooks are way more expensive than the laptops you can get for $300-$500 at Wal-Mart or Best Buy. I'm guessing that you spent the extra bucks on that MacBook because you had high expectations for performance and stability, and from what I know of Macs, you weren't disappointed. I'm not justifying the $300-$500 WML to myself, but I am saying that rational, money-conscious people will still pay a very high price for something they believe will give them exactly what they want with no compromises.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I believe that I clarified that point quite well with "...If I do not believe the price is reasonable for my needs... I do not allow any of my money to be spent on that company's products."

    Yes it IS a MacBook... After YEARS and YEARS of paying for yet another "better PC"... And then spending hours and days and weeks of my time fighting with the next great anti-virus program... I figured out that buying a Mac was actually CHEAPER in the long run. Since I bought a Mac... I have spent less than 0.0000005% of my time using it, in fighting viruses and other such issues. My PCs were a constant source of aggravation as they took forever to boot and do this scan and that scan while I waited and waited and then about the time I was ready to close out for the day... HERE COMES THE 29 UPDATES that would not allow me to shut down my PC until WINDOWS was ready to do so.

    Yepper... ya betcherbippy it's a Mac. :D:thumbsup:
     

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