Oystermen, BOHICA

adit · Nov 21, 2018

They won't stop until all of the watermen are out of their boats.

A professor who devised a new model that can estimate the number of oysters in the Chesapeake Bay says the body of water's market-sized oyster population is around half the amount found in 1999.

Mike Wilberg of the University of Maryland's Center for Environmental Science presented his report to Maryland's Oyster Advisory Commission on Monday and estimated the population at 300 million.

He did say there hasn't been a major mortality event since 2005, and some areas have seen population increases.

A peer review of the model he's spent the last 18 months working on called it sound.

Shellfish Division Director Christopher Judy says the state will begin the public process of revising its oyster management plan after Wilberg sends a report to the state legislature Dec. 1.

http://www.wboc.com/story/39520597/model-chesapeake-bay-oyster-population-half-of-1999-count

Batt816 · Dec 19, 2018

Just sew a news report that oysters are thriving, even with all the rain and the damn dam. They are doing well. I wonder which is fake news

Matlack · Dec 19, 2018

The oysters are the bays filters. Considering how filthy the bay is, we don't have enough oysters.

I would actually like to see us pay crabbers and oystermen to clean the bay for a few years and not harvest anything. We are still over harvesting.

teratos · Dec 19, 2018

Matlack said:
The oysters are the bays filters. Considering how filthy the bay is, we don't have enough oysters.

I would actually like to see us pay crabbers and oystermen to clean the bay for a few years and not harvest anything. We are still over harvesting.

To be fair, put a moratorium on recreational crabbers. I hate to say that because I love crabbing, but why use tax dollars?

bkuether · Dec 19, 2018

Let mother nature fix herself. She knows how.

Batt816 · Dec 19, 2018

bkuether said:
Let mother nature fix herself. She knows how.

Exactly!

Maybe if they could figure out to clean up what's behind the damn dam. And keep the city sewage out of the bay we'd be fine. The waterman make a living and and let us enjoy our recreational crabbing!

Enfield303 · Dec 19, 2018

Oysters are at 1% of their historic population. When the Canada goose population fell by 50% in 1995 the DNR closed the goose season for six years, putting hunting guides out of work. Why don't we pay the few remaining oystermen to not catch oysters for a few years and let the oyster population recover. That would help every other creature in the Bay. Just my two cents but I wouldn't eat a Chesapeake Bay oyster for any reason.

Matlack · Dec 19, 2018

teratos said:
To be fair, put a moratorium on recreational crabbers. I hate to say that because I love crabbing, but why use tax dollars?

They are going to pay someone to work on cleaning the bay, so why not help keep the watermen around for when the moratorium is lifted. Dont pay them to do nothing, but pay them to help the situation.

rseymorejr · Dec 19, 2018

Do they have a seeding program?

teratos · Dec 19, 2018

Matlack said:
They are going to pay someone to work on cleaning the bay, so why not help keep the watermen around for when the moratorium is lifted. Dont pay them to do nothing, but pay them to help the situation.

I’ll buy that.

Rich1911 · Dec 19, 2018

You all are aware of where your poop and pee goes I assume... no amount of oysters will ever keep up with that...

duckslayer · Dec 19, 2018

They took most of our bottom in 2010 for sanctuaries These were gauranteed to fix the problem
Now it’s worse so they want to expand sanctuaries.
Instead rotating the bottom is a better solution
Not is politicallly unacceptable because the state wants aquaculture. Eventually wild oysters will be a low enough levels to not be economicically feasible. This is what the state and the Chesapeake bay foundation want.

adit · Dec 20, 2018

Maryland DNR Approves $3 Million in Funding for Oyster Recovery

and in today's news....

The Maryland Department of Natural Resources has approved to invest over $3 million in oyster recovery and restoration projects in the Chesapeake Bay and surrounding tributaries.

The Board of Public Works had unanimous support for the project. Consisting of Governor Larry Hogan, Comptroller Peter Franchot and Treasurer Nancy Kopp, the board approved three contracts with the Oyster Recovery Partnership. The partnership is aimed at collecting oyster shells, constructing reefs and planting hatchery-reared oysters.

MNR Secretary Mark Belton says that with the contracts, the state of Maryland plans to enhance and rehabilitate the oyster population in the bay.

"“These contracts are key to reestablishing a self-sustaining oyster population and meeting our watershed goals," Belton said.

http://www.wboc.com/story/39670341/...ollar3-million-in-funding-for-oyster-recovery

44man · Dec 20, 2018

duckslayer said:
They took most of our bottom in 2010 for sanctuaries These were gauranteed to fix the problem
Now it’s worse so they want to expand sanctuaries.
Instead rotating the bottom is a better solution
Not is politicallly unacceptable because the state wants aquaculture. Eventually wild oysters will be a low enough levels to not be economicically feasible. This is what the state and the Chesapeake bay foundation want.

Yep, bottom rotation is absolutely necessary if there ever is a strike of spat, they need something hard to set on, we’ve been advocating that for years but it falls on deaf ears

We’ve also asked the state to pay watermen to do this by power dredging without a bag and to pay them to do this instead of oystering but again deaf ears

The water needs to be cleaned up and that means $$$ to fix sewer treatment plants and that’s not gonna happen

The state wants to be rid of watermen and farmers so letting the oysters and crabs go and adding more ******** for farmers is heading it that way

Soon enough the old ways will be gone, relics in a museum

gtodave · Dec 20, 2018

adit said:
They won't stop until all of the watermen are out of their boats.

http://www.wboc.com/story/39520597/model-chesapeake-bay-oyster-population-half-of-1999-count

It has nothing to do with putting people out of work, it has to do with keeping oysters round.

Batt816 said:
Just sew a news report that oysters are thriving, even with all the rain and the damn dam. They are doing well. I wonder which is fake news

The report you saw is fake. Oysters are NOT thriving this year, except for one sanctuary bar.

Enfield303 said:
Oysters are at 1% of their historic population. When the Canada goose population fell by 50% in 1995 the DNR closed the goose season for six years, putting hunting guides out of work. Why don't we pay the few remaining oystermen to not catch oysters for a few years and let the oyster population recover..

Because it's more complicated than that. They need structure to grow, and we don't have that right now in 95% of the bay. A moratorium would do little to help. If we are going to pay anyone for anything other than fishing, we should pay to develop structure.

duckslayer said:
They took most of our bottom in 2010 for sanctuaries These were gauranteed to fix the problem
Now it’s worse so they want to expand sanctuaries.
Instead rotating the bottom is a better solution
Not is politicallly unacceptable because the state wants aquaculture. Eventually wild oysters will be a low enough levels to not be economicically feasible. This is what the state and the Chesapeake bay foundation want.

That is patently untrue. The sanctuaries were approved by each county's watermen. You guys chose where they would be. And for the most part, you chose places that didn't have oysters (because the areas couldn't support them). And yes, many of them are not doing well. However, the ones that did have structure are doing phenomenally.

"Rotating the bottom" is absolute horse poop. As mentioned, oysters need structure. Breaking up that structure every year does more damage.

44man said:
Yep, bottom rotation is absolutely necessary if there ever is a strike of spat, they need something hard to set on, we’ve been advocating that for years but it falls on deaf ears

We’ve also asked the state to pay watermen to do this by power dredging without a bag and to pay them to do this instead of oystering but again deaf ears

The state wants to be rid of watermen and farmers so letting the oysters and crabs go and adding more ******** for farmers is heading it that way

Again, patently untrue. What logic do you follow that it makes sense to power dredge structure (in existing 3D oyster bars), demolishing it, in order to create more structure? It just doesn't make any sense. It's like Bush II saying "We need to abandon the free market to save it". It's nonsense. That's why your idea falls on deaf ears....it is nonsense.

And trust me, the state does NOT want to end watermen. There are a few zealots that would limit human impact to zero, but they are not in charge. They aren't even in the top 30 in the chain of command. Do you know who ultimately makes these calls? The governor. And last I checked, he is VERY pro watermen. The heads of all the fisheries departments are PRO watermen, and PRO sustainability.

Sealion · Dec 20, 2018

gtodave said:
It has nothing to do with putting people out of work, it has to do with keeping oysters round.

The report you saw is fake. Oysters are NOT thriving this year, except for one sanctuary bar.

Because it's more complicated than that. They need structure to grow, and we don't have that right now in 95% of the bay. A moratorium would do little to help. If we are going to pay anyone for anything other than fishing, we should pay to develop structure.
_______________________________________________________________________________

About the only thing I know about oysters is how to shuck them. I assumed a moratorium would work. (I thought the rockfish one worked, but maybe I'm wrong.) When you say structure is needed, what does that entail? Sorry if it's a dumb question, I just don't know.

44man · Dec 20, 2018

gtodave said:
It has nothing to do with putting people out of work, it has to do with keeping oysters round.

The report you saw is fake. Oysters are NOT thriving this year, except for one sanctuary bar.

Because it's more complicated than that. They need structure to grow, and we don't have that right now in 95% of the bay. A moratorium would do little to help. If we are going to pay anyone for anything other than fishing, we should pay to develop structure.

That is patently untrue. The sanctuaries were approved by each county's watermen. You guys chose where they would be. And for the most part, you chose places that didn't have oysters (because the areas couldn't support them). And yes, many of them are not doing well. However, the ones that did have structure are doing phenomenally.

"Rotating the bottom" is absolute horse poop. As mentioned, oysters need structure. Breaking up that structure every year does more damage.

Again, patently untrue. What logic do you follow that it makes sense to power dredge structure (in existing 3D oyster bars), demolishing it, in order to create more structure? It just doesn't make any sense. It's like Bush II saying "We need to abandon the free market to save it". It's nonsense. That's why your idea falls on deaf ears....it is nonsense.

And trust me, the state does NOT want to end watermen. There are a few zealots that would limit human impact to zero, but they are not in charge. They aren't even in the top 30 in the chain of command. Do you know who ultimately makes these calls? The governor. And last I checked, he is VERY pro watermen. The heads of all the fisheries departments are PRO watermen, and PRO sustainability.

Power dredging without a bag rotated the shell stock and mud putting the shell stock on to of the mud

Without something hard to attach to spat, baby oysters, just float around and die.

I am going to go out on a limb and figure you’ve never pulled tongs or power dredged.

I doubt you’ve ever seen a real natural oyster strike and see that in areas where you tonged or dredged the year before the shells would have dozens of small oysters on them and in areas not worked there was no strike because there was nothing to attach to.

In the 60 and 70 I saw what a good natural strike could do several times, but again those times are gone now.

And if the state wanted to keep watermen and farmers they would do something about the pollution and nitrogen coming from the bays headwaters in Pennslyvania

ChannelCat · Dec 20, 2018

rseymorejr said:
Do they have a seeding program?

The Chesapeake Bay Foundation has one.
http://www.cbf.org/how-we-save-the-...maryland/oyster-restoration/oyster-gardening/

....as does the Maryland DNR
http://dnr.maryland.gov/fisheries/Documents/oysterrestoration.pdf

gtodave · Dec 20, 2018

Sealion said:
About the only thing I know about oysters is how to shuck them. I assumed a moratorium would work. (I thought the rockfish one worked, but maybe I'm wrong.) When you say structure is needed, what does that entail? Sorry if it's a dumb question, I just don't know.

It's a logical conclusion to make, and others have made it too, but it is an apples/oranges comparison. Yes, the striper moratorium worked. If you take less of them, more will thrive in healthy water conditions. The water is their "structure". Oysters however need something physical to bond to, otherwise they don't grow. The best structure is other oysters, but anything hard will suffice (that's why you see them on the side of pilings, rocks, etc).

There is a sanctuary bed that has three-dimensional growth of oysters. Picture a giant clump of oysters growing up off of the bay floor. THAT is ideal. There is plenty for baby oysters to attach to, they are up out of the silt, and they are filtering and reproducing MoFo's when they grow like that.

The problem is, when these few successful bars reproduce and the spat (babies) float down in the current, they don't find other structure to bond to, and they die. And people want to power dredge these bars to harvest the successful oysters, killing the benefit of the 3D bar. It is short-sighted, when really they should be focusing long-term on building structure in other areas of the bay for spat to grow on.

The sanctuaries were never meant to be the cure for oysters...they were supposed to be the starting block for other areas in the bay to succeed. But there is a strong push for the governor to open up the sanctuaries for harvest. This would cut off naturally reproduced spat significantly.

/oysters101

gtodave · Dec 20, 2018

44man said:
Power dredging without a bag rotated the shell stock and mud putting the shell stock on top of the mud

but if the oyster bed is already out of the mud (3D bar), you are only doing more damage. What you are talking about is dead shell on bottom, in which case, yes, bringing them to the surface helps. But they are only dead in the first place because their bar was overharvested, or they are returned shell from harvested oysters. Live oysters do not benefit at all from dredging.

44man said:
Without something hard to attach to spat, baby oysters, just float around and die.

As I mentioned

44man said:
I am going to go out on a limb and figure you’ve never pulled tongs or power dredged.

Your limb just broke.

44man said:
I doubt you’ve ever seen a real natural oyster strike and see that in areas where you tonged or dredged the year before the shells would have dozens of small oysters on them and in areas not worked there was no strike because there was nothing to attach to.

I know a heck of a lot more about oysters on the macro level than you think. I don't mean to be cryptic or rude, but I can't say any more on that matter.

44man said:
And if the state wanted to keep watermen and farmers they would do something about the pollution and nitrogen coming from the bays headwaters in Pennslyvania

MD can't control what PA does. I'm sure you've heard crabbers complain about VA power dredging in the winter, right? MD can't control VA either. But they are working on resolutions.

Oystermen, BOHICA

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

ReMember

Ultimate Member

Scribe

My hair is amazing

Judge not this race .....

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Scribe

Ultimate Member

My hair is amazing

Ultimate Member

Active Member

ReMember

Ultimate Member

Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Member

Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics