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Old May 21st, 2017, 08:57 AM #1
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Co-worker needs help ID'ing Rifle

Eric says this belonged to his father, a WWII navy vet.
I couldn't find a manufacturer's name or a date on it, but didn't try and remove the stock. Could only get the bolt carrier to close.

The muzzle looked almost like the size of a .22 but the chamber looked closer in size to a centerfire caliber? There was no daylight looking down the bore, so it's either heavily corroded or was non-firing used for training purposes.

I don't have much depth of knowledge with regards to C&R, so he now knows it appears to be a rusty old rifle from my 2 cents.

Here are some pics
https://goo.gl/photos/ZWUmD95s6AbKSyqEA
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Last edited by todbiker; May 21st, 2017 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Fixed Link
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Old May 21st, 2017, 09:04 AM #2
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The photos were password protected.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 09:23 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snallygaster View Post
The photos were password protected.
Sorry, the link should be fixed, could you try again please?
Thanks
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Old May 21st, 2017, 10:11 AM #4
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Cruddy Spanish 8mm Mauser?

Not a militaria guy, so just spitballin'
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Old May 21st, 2017, 10:13 AM #5
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I dunno man, the bayonet kind of looks like this:

http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Ide...0/B1420-2.html
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Old May 21st, 2017, 10:18 AM #6
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The bayonet looks to be Japanese. Any markings on it at all? That said, the bayonet may not belong with the rifle. The Japanese did make many training rifles so that is my current guess pending markings of some sort.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 10:20 AM #7
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It's a Type I Japanese Arisaka/Carcano: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=388778
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_Rifle

Made by Italy for use in Japan with the 6.5x50mm round. They were pretty much exclusively distributed to the Japanese Navy. That's why there's no mum or Japanese markings on it. That's a Type 30/35 bayonet that went with it.

Rarer than Arisakas from what I understand, but the condition on that one is well.... uuuuuugly.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 10:32 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallen702 View Post
It's a Type I Japanese Arisaka/Carcano: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=388778
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_Rifle

Made by Italy for use in Japan with the 6.5x50mm round. They were pretty much exclusively distributed to the Japanese Navy. That's why there's no mum or Japanese markings on it. That's a Type 30/35 bayonet that went with it.

Rarer than Arisakas from what I understand, but the condition on that one is well.... uuuuuugly.
Bingo - looks just like mine, except for the poor condition.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 10:34 AM #9
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That gun needs some serious TLC but I'd agree with the prior assessment of it being a Type 1 Arisaka.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 10:47 AM #10
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Agree with the above and will add that the bayonet looks to be a Type 30 training bayonet based on its construction.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 10:55 AM #11
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As to the bore being filled, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's filled with dirt and rust. Given the severe pitting to the exterior of the barrel and action, I'm guessing it was brought home and either never shot, or shot, but never cleaned. There are a couple of choices here that your buddy could go with. He can have it professionally restored, but I'm guessing that it's going to be extremely expensive to do so. It's a family heirloom though, so that might outweigh the cost. He can leave it like it is and have a wall-hanger that will continue to deteriorate over time, or he can build an electrolysis setup for rust removal without damaging any remaining bluing on the weapon and then treat it with a rust preventative to clean it up a bit without damaging any collector value left in it. My guess is that if the barrel is that bad, it's not going to be a "shooter" and will always just be a conversation piece regardless of what route he takes.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 12:17 PM #12
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Let me know what your friend wants for it if he decides to sell.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 12:27 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallen702 View Post
As to the bore being filled, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's filled with dirt and rust. Given the severe pitting to the exterior of the barrel and action, I'm guessing it was brought home and either never shot, or shot, but never cleaned. There are a couple of choices here that your buddy could go with. He can have it professionally restored, but I'm guessing that it's going to be extremely expensive to do so. It's a family heirloom though, so that might outweigh the cost. He can leave it like it is and have a wall-hanger that will continue to deteriorate over time, or he can build an electrolysis setup for rust removal without damaging any remaining bluing on the weapon and then treat it with a rust preventative to clean it up a bit without damaging any collector value left in it. My guess is that if the barrel is that bad, it's not going to be a "shooter" and will always just be a conversation piece regardless of what route he takes.
Could also be a very simple cleaning it needs. But, given the condition, I'd look into getting it thrown into an electrolysis tank to dissolve the rust. It will be the most effective method at this point.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 01:09 PM #14
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Thanks for the help

Thanks everyone for the responses, I certainly didn't have a clue about it, the no markings really had me stonewalled.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 01:52 PM #15
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Old May 21st, 2017, 02:01 PM #16
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Machine gun.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 02:18 PM #17
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The Type I's will still have some markings on them. Not a lot but some.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 02:23 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohen cepel View Post
The Type I's will still have some markings on them. Not a lot but some.
They may also have been obliterated by corrosion.
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Old May 31st, 2017, 10:58 PM #19
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Here's a good link for you. http://candrsenal.com/rifle-carcano-type-i/
The dead giveaway is the funky Carcano safety lever and split-bridge receiver combined with the internal box magazine.
They were manufactured in Italy for a Japanese Navy contract in 1938-39.
They don't have much in the way of markings to begin with. They weren't "scrubbed" of Meiji Chrysanthemums like most Japanese rifles were before being "surrendered" to the US occupation forces because there was no chrysanthemum to grind off.
Finland also received Carcano rifles from Italy in 1939 for use in the war with the Soviet Union. Despite the bad rep they got in the US after WWII, the Carcano's were sturdy weapons.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 05:36 AM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-43 View Post
Here's a good link for you. http://candrsenal.com/rifle-carcano-type-i/
The dead giveaway is the funky Carcano safety lever and split-bridge receiver combined with the internal box magazine.
They were manufactured in Italy for a Japanese Navy contract in 1938-39.
They don't have much in the way of markings to begin with. They weren't "scrubbed" of Meiji Chrysanthemums like most Japanese rifles were before being "surrendered" to the US occupation forces because there was no chrysanthemum to grind off.
Finland also received Carcano rifles from Italy in 1939 for use in the war with the Soviet Union. Despite the bad rep they got in the US after WWII, the Carcano's were sturdy weapons.
Great link, I'll pass it on to my co-worker, thanks


   
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