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Old January 31st, 2009, 08:51 PM #1
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Curio and Relic FAQ!! Read me first!!!

Curio and Relic FAQ.

First of all I am not a laywer! This is only an informative FAQ. Please do your own research and verify this information!

Due to popular demand and thanks to Novus's nomination, I am hereby starting a Curio and Relic FAQ. These are common questions asked by members about a new found freedom in the Curio and Relic field. If you have any questions or answers to input, just add them here and I will add them to the original posting.

What is the difference between being a "Maryland Designated Collector" and having a "Curio and Relic License?"
The Maryland Designated Collector" status is a MARYLAND status that allows a person to purchase more than one "regulated firearm" (Handguns or "Assault Rifles") in a month within the state of Maryland. You can ask a local dealer for the form. It needs to be certified and mailed to the Maryland State Police. You should receive the status in about a month.

A C&R License is a FEDERAL Firearms License that specifically allows the purchase of C&R type firearms in interstate commerce.
These two are very different and make sure that you apply and get the forms for the one you want.

What is a C&R License?
A Curio and Relic License (or an 03 FFL, or C&R License) is a Federal Firearms License that was designed under the Gun Control act of 1968 to allow collectors of C&R type firearms to purchase/acquire or sell/dispose of C&R type guns in interstate commerce. There is no NICS check and the firearms can be delivered directly to your door. It is even possible for a C&R licensee to obtain a C&R eligible firearm from outside of the USA but I have not heard of anyone successfully doing it.


What is Interstate Commerce?
Interstate Commerce is the sale or purchase of an item (specifically a firearm in this situation) in a state other than your home state. Say you live in Maryland, you can purchase or sell a C&R type firearm within any state of the union (as long as state laws allow). This requires no FFL because you are one.
Why should I get a C&R License?
It allows you to get really awesome historic weapons (classified as C&R) usually at discounted prices shipped right to your door with no NCIS check. You also get dealer discounts on non-C&R items from Midway and Brownells. You can even purchase C&R handguns from the Internet and out of State without any MD regulation. This is according to the MD Attorney General Letter. http://www.mdshooters.com/attachment...7&d=1203650575

How much does it cost?
The license is a non-refundable $30 cost for a 3 year license. If you pay with a credit card, you will see the subtraction from your account but this doesn't mean your approved yet. It just means they received your application and are processing it.

How do I order C&R applications?
Order forms here:
http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/
You want the forms titled:
F 7CR (5310.16) - Application for License (Collector of Curios and Relics) Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms

What's the C&R/BATFE application process?
First you must order the form titled: F 7CR (5310.16) - Application for License (Collector of Curios and Relics) Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms. Once you receive the forms and have filled them out, mail one copy to the ATF with a payment of $30 and one copy to your LOCAL Chief Law Enforcement Officer. You should receive your license in about a month. You will also receive a separate welcome packet. Don't be worried if you receive one before the other. The other is on its way. Buy or make a bound book and read all the laws and information pertaining to your new C&R license. After your a know it all, buy a gun with your new license. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask. There are plenty of people here to help you out, including yours truly!

Who is my CLEO and how do I to find out?
According to an email that I received directly from the ATF, they said the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your area is the one in your most local police precinct. In other words. It is not usually the state police. It is the CLEO in you local district like the county or city police. The easiest way to find your CLEO is to call the local police departments non emergency line and ask who the CLEO is for the department. Call and confirm with this person that they are in fact the CLEO and mail the forms to them.

Does my CLEO approve or deny my C&R application?
No, you are only notifying them of your collecting activities as required by law. They can not approve or deny your application. Only the ATF approves or denies applications. A CLEO may contact or be contacted by ATF to try and refuse your application.

Am I required to supply fingerprints or any other personal information when applying for a license?
No, you are not required to supply much more than what you supply on a normal Federal application to purchase a firearm.

Am I still required to follow all state and local laws and regulations even though I have a C&R License?Yes, you are required to follow all laws and a failure to do so may result in the loss of you license and/or worse (jail). There are exclusions from certain laws however being a C&R Licensee. A C&R License may allow you to do some things in your area that you were not allowed to do otherwise.

Will a C&R License benefit me if I only collect modern guns or only plan to own one firearm?
Yes! A C&R License can benefit everyone! Even if you only have one gun or only collect modern guns you still get dealer discounts from Brownells.com and Midway.com. Sometimes these discounts can be quite substantial and you should get your $30 back within three years if you purchase a good amount of accessories and other products from them.

Is it true that there are some machine guns that can be purchased as C&R?
Yes, there are plenty of machine guns on the list and the Thompson SMG is one of them. According to the ATF FAQ: [A person can acquire the firearms] Only if the firearms are classified as curios or relics, are registered, and are transferred in accordance with the provisions of the NFA.

How do I find out if a gun is on the C&R list?
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/

Can I buy modern guns with my C&R License?
Yes and no. You CAN NOT use your license to obtain non-C&R firearms, however that doesn't mean you can not buy a modern gun without it. You are still allowed to purchase modern guns, you just can not use your license to do it.

Can I sell any of my C&R guns once I have a C&R license?
Yes but you have to be very careful that you are not "Conducting Business" in the eyes of the ATF. You are allowed to buy and sell C&R type firearms to enhance your personal collection.

What is "conducting business?"
A person who conducts business is a "person or entity who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms." Technically speaking, it is a grey area and open to interpretation. There have been no questions posed to the ATF and prices are not a part of your bound book. The only thing the ATF has to see is your bound book. If they see lots of transfers in and out of your bound book within a short period of time I assume that they will think your are conducting a business unless you can prove otherwise. I would stay away from this and just buy the firearms to enhance your collection and not buy them for a friend to get them a deal. Buying and selling parts or accessories from distributors and selling them to your friends can also be a very grey area. I think this has been determined to be illegal but I can't prove it.

Are licensed collectors required to execute ATF Form 4473 for transactions in curio or relic firearms?
According to the ATF FAQ: No. However, licensed collectors are required to keep a "bound book" record.

Can I sell my C&R guns to a non-collector?
Yes, and all state and local laws must be followed. You can only sell a C&R firearm to a non licensee in your home state. You can sell them to FFL's in any state where it is legal to do so. This includes other C&R holders.

Are C&R holders required to comply with the requirements that written notification be given to handgun transferees and signs be posted on juvenile handgun possession?
According to the ATF FAQ: The requirement that written notification concerning juvenile handgun possession be given by licensees to a non-licensee to whom a handgun is delivered applies to curio or relic handguns transferred by licensed collectors. However, the sign posting requirement does not apply to licensed collectors.

Are C&R holders transfers of C&R firearms subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees?
According to the ATF FAQ: No, but it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.

When and how am I required to report lost or stole firearms?
According to an ATF letter: Report the theft or loss of a firearm, within 48 hours of discovery, by telephoning ATF at 1-800-800-3855. Also, ATF Form 3310.11, Federal Firearms Theft/Loss Report, must be prepared in accordance with the instructions on the form.

Do I need to do anything extra if I sell multiple sales of C&R handguns with a C&R license?
According to an ATF letter: Prepare ATF Form 2210.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers, whenever the collector sells or otherwise disposes of, at one time or during and five consecutive business days, two or more pistols or revolver or any combination thereof, to an unlicensed person.

What is a "bound book?"
According to the ATF FAQ: "A 'bound book' is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages which must be maintained on the business premises. The format must follow that prescribed in the regulations, and the pages must be numbered consecutively.

What does a bound book look like?
http://www.cruffler.com/boundbook2.pdf

How long do I have before I am required to record an entry in my bound book?
According to the ATF FAQ: "Generally, licensees have to enter the acquisition or purchase of a firearm by the close of the next business day after the acquisition or purchase..."

Do I have to record every gun purchase in my bound book or just my C&R purchases?
You only have to record the C&R firearms that you purchase after obtaining you license. This means that if you purchase a non-C&R gun it does not have to be entered in you bound book. This also means that you must log in/out a firearm that was purchase after you got your license even if you do not use your license to purchase the firearm. Even still, you DO NOT have to log in a C&R firearm that was purchase prior to your license however if you sell the said firearm after obtaining you license you must log it in and out accordingly.

Is it true that the ATF can inspect my records?
Yes they can. They can do this up to once a year unless they have a warrant and then they can inspect you when they have it. The compliance inspection can be done at the ATF facility or at your home. It is your choice.

Are licensed collectors required to turn in their acquisition/disposition records to ATF if their collector’s license is not renewed or they discontinue their collecting activity?
According to the ATF FAQ: No. The GCA requires the delivery of required records to the Government within 30 days after a firearms “business” is discontinued. A license as a collector of curios or relics does not authorize any business with respect to firearms. Therefore, the records required to be kept by licensed collectors under the law and regulations are not business records and are not required to be turned in to ATF when collectors' licenses are not renewed or collecting activity under such licenses is discontinued.

What is a Curio and Relic firearm?
  • It must have been manufactured at least 50 years ago, or
  • Be certified as a curio and relic of museum interest by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum that exhibits firearms, or
  • Derive a substantial part of its monetary value from the fact that it is novel, rare, bizarre, or associated with some historical event, period, or figure.

Can I buy a C&R firearm without a C&R license?
Yes you can but you will pay full dealer markup for them and for regulated firearms you must have them transferred to a MD dealer first.

Can I buy C&R handguns with my C&R license and have them delivered directly to my door in Maryland?
According to an MD Attorney General letter that has been widely circulated on the Internet, you can in fact buy handguns with your C&R License however it is not their "official" opinion. Many on this board have done it and I have not read anything that says it is illegal. http://www.mdshooters.com/attachment...7&d=1203650575

Is it true that I am required to record "Armor Piercing Ammunition" since I am a C&R licensee?
Yes, you are required to record the acquisition and disposition of AP ammo.

What is required in the AP Ammo log?
  1. The date of the transaction
  2. The name of the manufacturer
  3. The caliber or gauge
  4. The quantity of projectiles
  5. The name, address, and date of birth of the non-licensee
  6. The method used to establish the identity of the armor piercing ammunition purchaser.
This format is required to be in bound form

How do I buy a C&R firearm using my new license?
First you either have to snail mail, fax, or email your license to distributors. This depends on how they accept them and what the ATF has told that particular distributor. You should also ask to be on their mailing list. Once you see a firearm you want, call the distributor and give them a credit card number or mail them payment. You should expect a package from the big brown truck of joy shortly!

You can also buy C&R firearms from local or out of state dealers by supplying your license to them and signing it in front of them. All state and local laws must be followed in this transaction.

There are no rewards in buying a C&R handgun or C&R "assault rifle" in the state of Maryland. You must follow all state laws and record the acquisition in your bound book even though you could not use your license to purchase the said firearm.

What are some good distributors?
This is not an all inclusive list. It's only a start and people who I have personally dealt with. There are other threads for better information.
Southern Ohio Gun http://www.southernohiogun.com/
AIM Surplus http://www.aimsurplus.com/
J&G Sales http://www.jgsales.com/
Midway USA http://www.midwayusa.com/
Brownells http://www.brownells.com/

Where is the ATF FAQ if I want to look through their questions?
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/

Is coinboy a laywer?
Nope! Never claimed to be one either.
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Last edited by 2SAM22; October 2nd, 2015 at 09:49 AM. Reason: All links checked and current as of Jan. 17, 2010.
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Old January 31st, 2009, 09:26 PM #2
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Alot of useful info. Thanks for posting.
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Old January 31st, 2009, 09:27 PM #3
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i thought you had a video for this
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Old January 31st, 2009, 10:26 PM #4
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GREAT job Coinboy!
Haven't read every detail, but will. Steering folks to the right C&R resourses and answers will be fantastic moving forward.
I didn't notice info on or links to primers regarding "how" to fill out the application. If I missed it, my bad.
You obviously did a lot of work on this!!
Thank you!
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Old January 31st, 2009, 10:26 PM #5
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Do you need a C&R to get a MD Designated Collector?
Is there a form that you can download to fill to submit for the MD Designated Collector?
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Old January 31st, 2009, 10:53 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpSchoch View Post
Do you need a C&R to get a MD Designated Collector?
Is there a form that you can download to fill to submit for the MD Designated Collector?
No. Being a C&R licensee is not required to become a MD Designated Collector. They are different things.
You can download a MD Collector Application and Affidavit here:
http://www.mdsp.org/Downloads/Collec..._Affidavit.pdf
The address on the form is incorrect. If mailed, your completed and notarized form should go to:

Maryland State Police Licensing Division
1111 Reisterstown Road
Pikesville, Maryland, 21208
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Old February 1st, 2009, 12:37 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpSchoch View Post
Do you need a C&R to get a MD Designated Collector?
Is there a form that you can download to fill to submit for the MD Designated Collector?
As Joe already stated it is not a requirement, however you may use it as the reason you want the designation if you so choose. It says this on the affidavit form:
Quote:
Type Code Of Maryland Regulations defines a collector as being an individual who:
(a) Devotes time and attention to acquiring certain types of regulated firearms for the enhancement of the collector’s personal collection and does not act
as a firearms dealer; or [emphasis mine]
(b) Possesses a Federal Collector’s License (Curio and Relics).
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Old February 1st, 2009, 12:54 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coinboy View Post
[B]Curio and Relic FAQ.[/B

Can I sell my C&R guns to a non-collector?
Yes, and all state and local laws must be followed. You can only sell a C&R firearm to a non licensee in your home state. You can sell them to FFL's in any state where it is legal to do so. This includes other C&R holders.
Just to clarify, you can sell to a non-licensee who is a resident of the state where the C&R address is in anywhere in that state, but when selling (C&R long gun only) to a non-licensee resident of another state, it has to be at the actual address on the license.
For note....C&R handguns cannot be sold to a non-licensee resident of another state under any circumstances without going through another type of FFL in their state.

Quote:

Can I buy a C&R firearm without a C&R license?
Yes you can but you will pay full dealer markup for them and for regulated firearms you must have them transferred to a MD dealer first.....
......
There are no rewards in buying a C&R handgun or C&R "assault rifle" in the state of Maryland. You must follow all state laws and record the acquisition in your bound book even though you could not use your license to purchase the said firearm.
We should check this to be sure, but how I am reading it, even though your license is worthless in MD for C&R handguns bought within the state and you still have to do the state background check and forms, you still have to exchange copies of your FFL. I do know you have to record the C&R acquisition in your bound book because you do not have the option of not to using your license because ALL C&R acquisitions and dispositions must be recorded during the time you have the license.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 05:09 AM #9
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what is "armor piercing ammo"?????
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Old February 1st, 2009, 07:49 AM #10
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Armor Piercing Ammo = specially manufactured with the intent to penetrate steel plate armor. IE to shoot down a plane, go through a tank....
Mostly considered to be for military use, you cannot hunt in Maryland with any fully jacketed ammo.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 08:02 AM #11
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I'd like to know what "armor piercing" ammo is too.

Also, clarify in the Machine Gun section that you still have to go through ATF tax stamp, fingerprints and paperwork for C&R machine guns. After you get your tax stamp and ATF paperwork, can you have the machine gun shipped to your place of collecting?
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Old February 1st, 2009, 08:12 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futureseabee4usn View Post
i thought you had a video for this
Billy Mays will have one out soon.

Good job coinboy! Now we can point to this post for all those C&R questions that come up from time to time.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 09:49 AM #13
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I'm not a lawyer, but if I remember correctly, "armor piercing" ammo must say it is such on the box to count...for example some of the .50 BMG rounds available that say "armor piercing incendiary" or "armor piercing incendiary tracer". I'll have to go back and re-read to double check.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 11:19 AM #14
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I have an old round of .30-06 stamped Lake City 1952 that had a black tip and is strongly attracted to magnets. I was told by the guy I bought it from it was "armor piercing". I bought it as a novelty for $0.50 or something.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 03:00 PM #15
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Do you think getting a Maryland collectors license is worth it? I personally want to stay off the states radar if I can help it. The C&R allows me access to as many deals.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 03:08 PM #16
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Yes, I think every gun owner in MD should have it. If you ever bought any gun in MD then they already got your infrmation, especially if you have the stupid firearms purchasing card.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 03:26 PM #17
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Thanks coinboy, I was going to go for it. Just don't like being on the BIG radar screen. My stepson's a county cop and gave me the same advice. Is it really only a month turnaround? I've heard up to 3months.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 03:29 PM #18
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Quote:
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Thanks coinboy, I was going to go for it. Just don't like being on the BIG radar screen. My stepson's a county cop and gave me the same advice. Is it really only a month turnaround? I've heard up to 3months.
Mine took three weeks but that was long ago. I don't know what the wait is now.
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Why don't you have a C&R yet?

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"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe."
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 09:42 AM #19
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Armor piercing ammo

This needs to be cleared up, armor piercing ammo like .50 BMG and steel core 30-06 or other rifle only ammo is generally not what has to be recorded in the bound book, it is just the armor piercing ammo for handguns or that can be used in handguns that they also classified as "armor piercing".

This is the definition:
Quote:
921(a)(17)

(B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means —

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun
shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations
for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target
shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is
primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other
projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is
intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge
used in an oil and gas well perforating device.
I am not completely sure, but some rifle ammo is included like the 7.62x39 ammo because there are some pistols made for it and this is why it is impossible to import it for the general population and it is illegal to make bullets for it.....however, this only applies to the bullets and if you already have them, or you can get 7.62 armor piercing bullets that will fit into a 7.62x39 case, then it is legal to assemble the cartridge (the restriction just applies to the manufacture and importaion of the bullets). If you assembled these rounds and then sold them while a C&R FFL, then you must record the sale in your bound book along with their ID info.
If you had 5.56 "armor piercing" ammo, then for some reason that is exempt from the restriction from what I have been reading and you supposedly would not have to record it in the bound book....but this part is really sketchy to me.
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Old March 5th, 2009, 09:55 PM #20
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coinboy coinboy is offline
Yeah, Sweet Lemonade.
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Cool! They made it a sticky! I never got a sticky before.

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