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Old June 19th, 2017, 03:01 PM #1281
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We are talking two different things. The DC bill allegedly would be for home state permit holders only, however the House version HR 38 National Reciprocity act so far allows carry anywhere with any permit. My opinion is that to get some other folks on board the portion allowing carry on a NR opermit in your home state will be negotiated away in Conference Committee to keep the states from complaining their own CCW laws are being overlooked.


Just my opinion.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 05:00 PM #1282
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Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
We are talking two different things. The DC bill allegedly would be for home state permit holders only, however the House version HR 38 National Reciprocity act so far allows carry anywhere with any permit. My opinion is that to get some other folks on board the portion allowing carry on a NR opermit in your home state will be negotiated away in Conference Committee to keep the states from complaining their own CCW laws are being overlooked.


Just my opinion.
IMO the DC bill, nor an amended reciprocity bill for home state permits only moves the needle at all. We need 8 Dem Senators. I don't see any coming forward and saying they'd vote for it IF it were home states only.
Chuckie has them under his thumb. He'll allow up to 7 yes votes for those in red states to get their "street cred" so to speak.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 05:57 PM #1283
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I don't disagree, but IMO the first thing to go in a conference committee would be the allowance of carry on any permit, if it even got that far..

The only way this gets passed in the Senate besides a legislative maneuver is the removal of the 3/5 majority vote to invoke cloture.

3/5=60 votes..

Sadly, Mitch doesn't have the nads for that.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 06:15 PM #1284
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I don't disagree, but IMO the first thing to go in a conference committee would be the allowance of carry on any permit, if it even got that far..

The only way this gets passed in the Senate besides a legislative maneuver is the removal of the 3/5 majority vote to invoke cloture.

3/5=60 votes..

Sadly, Mitch doesn't have the nads for that.

That's because Mitch can see the writing on the wall that he will be the minority leader again after next years election and doesn't want a democratic majority with that ability
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Old June 19th, 2017, 06:17 PM #1285
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It will take more than a CCW statute to cause the R's to lose the Senate.

The Dems would do it in a NY (Schumer) minute.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 08:52 PM #1286
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That's because Mitch can see the writing on the wall that he will be the minority leader again after next years election and doesn't want a democratic majority with that ability
Nothing stops the Dems from doing the same once they get the 51.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 04:49 AM #1287
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exactly my point. either side can do it once they get power. Mitch just doesn't seem to realize that this may be our last opportunity to do something.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 05:43 AM #1288
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Then why didn't the Dems do it a year an half ago when they were being filibustered by the republicans?


Neither side is going to give up that power to the majority because they know that is their only real weapon if they find themselves in the minority.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 05:46 AM #1289
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Harry Reid did it to load up the District Courts with Obama appointees. I have no doubt they'd have done it to get one of their nominees on SCOTUS. Donald Trump took away that opportunity.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 05:48 AM #1290
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Quote:
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It will take more than a CCW statute to cause the R's to lose the Senate.

The Dems would do it in a NY (Schumer) minute.
They are going to loose the senate not because of one little ccw bill.

They will loose the senate because the swing voters that got them there see the emperor has no clothes.

Only one example but Obamacare..... they rallied for 6-7 years how terrible it was and how they have the answers..... get them in there and come to find out they have no plan....
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Old June 20th, 2017, 05:50 AM #1291
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Harry Reid did it to load up the District Courts with Obama appointees. I have no doubt they'd have done it to get one of their nominees on SCOTUS. Donald Trump took away that opportunity.
Then why do we have Neil as the most recent justice?
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Old June 20th, 2017, 05:52 AM #1292
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because the Senate decided to wait. not holding the hearings doesn't require 60 votes. they had no pressure to do anything on Garland.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 05:55 AM #1293
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I think you are right that by the time Obama made the appointment the Dems were already in the minority.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 06:38 AM #1294
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There's a fear that's paralyzing the Republicans in congress and more importantly some of their constituents (some "pro 2A" people who are calling and sending letters telling them not to pass national reciprocity) that passing national reciprocity will open the door for the Democrats to put training and other restrictions on it and to even ban it when they regain the majority and presidency down the road.

The Dems are already planning to do it regardless of what's in place at the time of presentation. The assault weapons ban, it's attempted renewal and gun control acts were federal bills without preceding federal impetus from the opposing side.

The Democrats will attempt to do this anyway regardless of precedence so why not put another hurdle in place for them to have to overcome. National reciprocity will have been in place for awhile and people will have had time to realize that the cry of "blood will be running in the streets" will not materialize.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 07:26 AM #1295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown50 View Post
There's a fear that's paralyzing the Republicans in congress and more importantly some of their constituents (some "pro 2A" people who are calling and sending letters telling them not to pass national reciprocity) that passing national reciprocity will open the door for the Democrats to put training and other restrictions on it and to even ban it when they regain the majority and presidency down the road.

The Dems are already planning to do it regardless of what's in place at the time of presentation. The assault weapons ban, it's attempted renewal and gun control acts were federal bills without preceding federal impetus from the opposing side.

The Democrats will attempt to do this anyway regardless of precedence so why not put another hurdle in place for them to have to overcome. National reciprocity will have been in place for awhile and people will have had time to realize that the cry of "blood will be running in the streets" will not materialize.
Right, this, times a million. The Dems are going to try to restrict carry when they are in the majority one way of the other.

It's better to show everyone that it at worst has no effect, or at best reduces crime on balance.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 07:35 AM #1296
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Everyone is thinking like good hearted citizens familiar with the real world, I'm having difficulty believing politicians and their lifetime benefits can fathom such strategies and concerns the/we subjects think of and endure.

Would calls and emails help at all at this point?, I believe they would only come from a minority living in the 7 states. ICBWrong.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 09:39 AM #1297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown50 View Post
There's a fear that's paralyzing the Republicans in congress and more importantly some of their constituents (some "pro 2A" people who are calling and sending letters telling them not to pass national reciprocity) that passing national reciprocity will open the door for the Democrats to put training and other restrictions on it and to even ban it when they regain the majority and presidency down the road.

The Dems are already planning to do it regardless of what's in place at the time of presentation. The assault weapons ban, it's attempted renewal and gun control acts were federal bills without preceding federal impetus from the opposing side.

The Democrats will attempt to do this anyway regardless of precedence so why not put another hurdle in place for them to have to overcome. National reciprocity will have been in place for awhile and people will have had time to realize that the cry of "blood will be running in the streets" will not materialize.
Exactly. The "conservatives" who claim that it will "set a bad precedent" are delusional. The left doesn't need "precedent" to impose its agenda. It already has it (through 70 years of bad Commerce Clause jurisprudence) and their judges will rubber stamp whatever they want to do. Even if we somehow win Peruta, the states will still be left to impose ridiculous restrictions on out of state permits (like Illinois currently does) and impose very high fees. If you travel a lot, having to carry separate permits from California, Maryland, new Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island isn't really feasible. We need some level of reciprocity, and if the GOP doesn't do it now, the opportunity is foreclosed forever.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 09:41 AM #1298
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Right, this, times a million. The Dems are going to try to restrict carry when they are in the majority one way of the other.

It's better to show everyone that it at worst has no effect, or at best reduces crime on balance.
Right. How often do you hear from the left "The portability of guns across state lines shows how we need national laws." Right now, they're blowing their wads on "universal background checks" and "magazine limits." Once those fail to stop the next mass shooting, a complete ban on magazine fed semi-autos will be their next target. And the current state of Commerce Clause jurisprudence means it'll be allowable. Hell, the current crop of judges are willing to allow a federal ban on jaywalking if the shoes you're wearing were transported in interstate commerce.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 09:41 AM #1299
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i do agree it's now or never
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Old June 20th, 2017, 11:04 AM #1300
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Once the Libs start loading up on CCW (like they are purchasing firearms now) they will not want to get rid of them either. It needs to be done now, or it will never happen.

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