Go Back   Maryland Shooters > The Arsenal > Curio and Relic (C&R)

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 19th, 2017, 01:57 PM #661
somd_mustangs's Avatar
somd_mustangs somd_mustangs is offline
-----
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,303
somd_mustangs somd_mustangs is offline
-----
somd_mustangs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggfoot44 View Post
Presumably the print card would still need to come in the mail ?
There is no <finger> print card required for FFL-03

page to access the 7CR:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...tf-form-531016
somd_mustangs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2017, 05:38 PM #662
Biggfoot44 Biggfoot44 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,327
Biggfoot44 Biggfoot44 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,327
I just printed out the forms, was that a faux pas ? Can I mail with money order, or does it have to be online with credit card ?
Biggfoot44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2017, 10:49 AM #663
Abulg1972's Avatar
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
Abulg1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by coinboy View Post
Curio and Relic FAQ.

Can I sell my C&R guns to a non-collector?
Yes, and all state and local laws must be followed. You can only sell a C&R firearm to a non licensee in your home state. You can sell them to FFL's in any state where it is legal to do so. This includes other C&R holders.
This may have already been addressed in this long thread, but, if not, the first post should be updated to correct the error.

An 03 FFL may sell a C&R long gun to an unlicensed person who resides in a different state, provided that (i) the sale occurs at the license's licensed premises and (ii) the sale complies with the laws of both states.
__________________


"There are two schools of thought: (i) rare junk is still junk; and (ii) I have a __________ which almost no one else has, and, yes, it's in poor condition."

03 FFL
Maryland Designated Regulated Firearms Collector
NRA Member
Member of Maryland Rifle Club, Inc.
Abulg1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2017, 08:41 AM #664
NathanJ's Avatar
NathanJ NathanJ is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Salisbury Maryland
Posts: 2,202
NathanJ NathanJ is online now
Senior Member
NathanJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Salisbury Maryland
Posts: 2,202
Charged for C&R July 1st and received it on July 31
NathanJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2017, 09:17 AM #665
KevinK KevinK is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carroll County, Md
Posts: 1,627
KevinK KevinK is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carroll County, Md
Posts: 1,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abulg1972 View Post
This may have already been addressed in this long thread, but, if not, the first post should be updated to correct the error.

An 03 FFL may sell a C&R long gun to an unlicensed person who resides in a different state, provided that (i) the sale occurs at the license's licensed premises and (ii) the sale complies with the laws of both states.
Do you have a cite for this? I think this is a no-go.


https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-...provisions-gca

Quote:
Are curio or relic firearms exempt from the provisions of the GCA?

No. Curios or relics are still firearms subject to the provisions of the GCA; however, curio or relic firearms may be transferred in interstate commerce to licensed collectors or other licensees.

[18. U.S.C. 921(a)(3) and (13) and 923(b); 27 CFR 478.11]
KevinK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2017, 04:09 PM #666
Abulg1972's Avatar
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
Abulg1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Curio and Relic FAQ!! Read me first!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
Do you have a cite for this? I think this is a no-go.





https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-...provisions-gca


The fact that C or R firearms are subject to the GCA of 1968 is not determinative. The regulations and BATFE are clear. An 03 FFL may sell a C or R long gun to an out of state resident provided that the sale (1) occurs at the licensed premises and (2) complies with the laws of both states.


Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
__________________


"There are two schools of thought: (i) rare junk is still junk; and (ii) I have a __________ which almost no one else has, and, yes, it's in poor condition."

03 FFL
Maryland Designated Regulated Firearms Collector
NRA Member
Member of Maryland Rifle Club, Inc.
Abulg1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2017, 04:24 PM #667
eruby's Avatar
eruby eruby is offline
Confederate Jew
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Carroll County, People's Republic of Maryland
Posts: 14,647
eruby eruby is offline
Confederate Jew
eruby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Carroll County, People's Republic of Maryland
Posts: 14,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abulg1972 View Post
The fact that C or R firearms are subject to the GCA of 1968 is not determinative. The regulations and BATFE are clear. An 03 FFL may sell a C or R long gun to an out of state resident provided that the sale (1) occurs at the licensed premises and (2) complies with the laws of both states.


Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Maybe it's BGOS, but trying to equate an 03 FFL to an 01 FFL is risky, IMO.

Buy I do see whence your argument arose.
__________________
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson

Beat your ploughshares into swords, and your pruning-hooks into spears; let the weakling say, ‘I am strong.’ Joel 3 : 10
eruby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2017, 04:58 PM #668
Abulg1972's Avatar
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
Abulg1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Curio and Relic FAQ!! Read me first!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eruby View Post
Maybe it's BGOS, but trying to equate an 03 FFL to an 01 FFL is risky, IMO.



Buy I do see whence your argument arose.


There are no arguments. This is cut and dry. I'm not taking a "position." There's no equating 03 and 01.

It is law and fact that an 03 FFL may dispose of a C or R firearm to a resident of another state if such disposition occurs at the licensed premises. People want to make this hard. It is not.
__________________


"There are two schools of thought: (i) rare junk is still junk; and (ii) I have a __________ which almost no one else has, and, yes, it's in poor condition."

03 FFL
Maryland Designated Regulated Firearms Collector
NRA Member
Member of Maryland Rifle Club, Inc.
Abulg1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2017, 05:46 AM #669
eruby's Avatar
eruby eruby is offline
Confederate Jew
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Carroll County, People's Republic of Maryland
Posts: 14,647
eruby eruby is offline
Confederate Jew
eruby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Carroll County, People's Republic of Maryland
Posts: 14,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abulg1972 View Post
There are no arguments. This is cut and dry. I'm not taking a "position." There's no equating 03 and 01.

It is law and fact that an 03 FFL may dispose of a C or R firearm to a resident of another state if such disposition occurs at the licensed premises. People want to make this hard. It is not.
Except depending on the frequency of "disposition" with the 03 FFL, they (ATF) may deem you to be 'selling' and not just 'collecting - with the occasional sale'.

Not gainsaying you, just want to avoid Leavenworth.

And if one thinks the ATF / Feds won't crack foxy, ask David Koresh or Vickie Weaver how they feel.

And I am just babbling as I no longer even have an 03, though I may or may not have at one time (boating accident .......)
__________________
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson

Beat your ploughshares into swords, and your pruning-hooks into spears; let the weakling say, ‘I am strong.’ Joel 3 : 10
eruby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2017, 09:37 AM #670
Abulg1972's Avatar
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
Abulg1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by eruby View Post
Except depending on the frequency of "disposition" with the 03 FFL, they (ATF) may deem you to be 'selling' and not just 'collecting - with the occasional sale'.



Not gainsaying you, just want to avoid Leavenworth.



And if one thinks the ATF / Feds won't crack foxy, ask David Koresh or Vickie Weaver how they feel.



And I am just babbling as I no longer even have an 03, though I may or may not have at one time (boating accident .......)


How did this turn into a discussion about engaging in the business of a dealer? No, BATFE's guidance is clear - one will be "engaged in the business" only if he or she regularly sells firearms with the principal objective of making a livelihood and profit. Frequency is irrelevant. Purpose is relevant.

One of the worst pieces of information I regularly see in forums and Facebook is that an 03 FFL cannot directly sell a C or R firearm out of the collection but must use an 01 FFL.

__________________


"There are two schools of thought: (i) rare junk is still junk; and (ii) I have a __________ which almost no one else has, and, yes, it's in poor condition."

03 FFL
Maryland Designated Regulated Firearms Collector
NRA Member
Member of Maryland Rifle Club, Inc.
Abulg1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2017, 09:48 AM #671
KevinK KevinK is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carroll County, Md
Posts: 1,627
KevinK KevinK is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carroll County, Md
Posts: 1,627
In the very image you posted it talks about same state of residence for nonlicensees, and obtaining, not selling being the point of the 03 FFL.

I wish you nothing but good luck and success in selling / transferring your C & R firearms at your license residence to out-of-state transferees.


Name:  c & r.jpg
Views: 178
Size:  53.7 KB
KevinK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2017, 10:14 AM #672
Abulg1972's Avatar
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
Abulg1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
In the very image you posted it talks about same state of residence for nonlicensees, and obtaining, not selling being the point of the 03 FFL.



I wish you nothing but good luck and success in selling / transferring your C & R firearms at your license residence to out-of-state transferees.





Attachment 210612


Read the regs and guidance. I have led you to water. I cannot make you drink. I have been at this a long time and I also happen to know a little about the law
__________________


"There are two schools of thought: (i) rare junk is still junk; and (ii) I have a __________ which almost no one else has, and, yes, it's in poor condition."

03 FFL
Maryland Designated Regulated Firearms Collector
NRA Member
Member of Maryland Rifle Club, Inc.
Abulg1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2017, 10:32 AM #673
KevinK KevinK is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carroll County, Md
Posts: 1,627
KevinK KevinK is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carroll County, Md
Posts: 1,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abulg1972 View Post
Read the regs and guidance. I have led you to water. I cannot make you drink. I have been at this a long time and I also happen to know a little about the law


KevinK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2017, 05:22 PM #674
Abulg1972's Avatar
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
Abulg1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinK View Post



Internet warrior-lawyers crack me up. Don't post misinformation and bad advice that makes it harder for honest, law-abiding people to enjoy the hobby and lose sleep at night. It's kind of like when someone posts that a bumpfire will send a guy to the clink ...

Ask your friends who have been in the collecting game a long time whether they have a hard time understanding this BATFE FAQ.

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
__________________


"There are two schools of thought: (i) rare junk is still junk; and (ii) I have a __________ which almost no one else has, and, yes, it's in poor condition."

03 FFL
Maryland Designated Regulated Firearms Collector
NRA Member
Member of Maryland Rifle Club, Inc.
Abulg1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2017, 05:50 PM #675
tallen702's Avatar
tallen702 tallen702 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: In the boonies of MoCo
Posts: 842
tallen702 tallen702 is offline
Member
tallen702's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: In the boonies of MoCo
Posts: 842
Sorry guys, Abulg1972 is absolutely correct:

From the BATFE:
Quote:
[18 U.S.C. 922 (x), 27 CFR 478.103]
Q: Can a licensed collector sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State?
Yes. A licensed collector is specifically authorized to sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State so long as 1) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee’s premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun; and 2) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States.
tallen702 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2017, 06:24 PM #676
Abulg1972's Avatar
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Abulg1972 Abulg1972 is offline
Senior Member
Abulg1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Somewhere south of the Manson-Nixon Line
Posts: 3,592
Curio and Relic FAQ!! Read me first!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallen702 View Post
Sorry guys, Abulg1972 is absolutely correct:



From the BATFE:


__________________


"There are two schools of thought: (i) rare junk is still junk; and (ii) I have a __________ which almost no one else has, and, yes, it's in poor condition."

03 FFL
Maryland Designated Regulated Firearms Collector
NRA Member
Member of Maryland Rifle Club, Inc.

Last edited by Abulg1972; August 3rd, 2017 at 08:45 AM.
Abulg1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2017, 09:35 AM #677
Melnic's Avatar
Melnic Melnic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: HoCo
Posts: 5,678
Melnic Melnic is offline
Senior Member
Melnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: HoCo
Posts: 5,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallen702 View Post
Sorry guys, Abulg1972 is absolutely correct:

From the BATFE:
+1
Melnic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2017, 01:57 PM #678
hdatontodo's Avatar
hdatontodo hdatontodo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: W Balto Co
Posts: 2,406
hdatontodo hdatontodo is offline
Senior Member
hdatontodo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: W Balto Co
Posts: 2,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by somd_mustangs View Post
There is no <finger> print card required for FFL-03

page to access the 7CR:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...tf-form-531016
A number of websites now have a non-working link to the C&R FFL form. Is this the right one?

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/...16pdf/download
hdatontodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2017, 06:37 PM #679
budman93's Avatar
budman93 budman93 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Frederick County
Posts: 2,115
budman93 budman93 is offline
Senior Member
budman93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Frederick County
Posts: 2,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdatontodo View Post
A number of websites now have a non-working link to the C&R FFL form. Is this the right one?

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/...16pdf/download
That link is dead now too. I was just looking for the current form to send to a friend who is interested. Anyone know where it is? I am not seeing it on the ATF site.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Such as were inclined to defend themselves, but unable to purchase Arms and Ammunition, have, as we are informed, been supplied with both, as far as Arms could be procured, out of Monies given by the last Assembly for the King’s Use..."
- Benjamin Franklin
budman93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2017, 07:52 PM #680
somd_mustangs's Avatar
somd_mustangs somd_mustangs is offline
-----
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,303
somd_mustangs somd_mustangs is offline
-----
somd_mustangs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,303
They seem to be forever tinkering with their website. Even links within their current website don't work.

try:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...31016/download

apparently all FFL types use this form now (?), including C&R according to this page (see Form 7/7CR):
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...tid=All&page=1


Read instructions carefully, unless things have changed recently FFL-03 doesn't need to supply photo or fingerprints.

That's the only one I could find anyway.


   
somd_mustangs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > The Arsenal > Curio and Relic (C&R)


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2017, Congregate Media, LP Privacy Policy Terms of Service