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Old June 18th, 2017, 08:18 AM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Steel View Post
So the Park Service does enforce state laws.
No, they enforce the Federal law that says that National Parks follow the laws of the state where they are located.

A seemingly slight, but actually significant difference.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 08:20 AM #42
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someone here gets it.

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Old June 18th, 2017, 09:47 AM #43
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Guess you want to take risks and be in trouble. I would not because it seems very complicated when it comes to interpreting the laws. Point blank.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 09:49 AM #44
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How complicated is "follow the laws of the state the park is located in?"

RIF

I got a ME permit so I can legally carry in Arcadia National Park because ME law requires it or a reciprocal state's resident permit, as ME does not recognize NR permits. The NPS follows ME law.

BGOS syndrome rears it's ugly head yet again.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 11:46 AM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbledoc View Post
I wish that were true. Carry in national parks is up to the laws of the state it is in. For example, to carry in Acadia you have to have a Maine permit. Maryland law states specifically no carry in State or Federal parks even if you have an unrestricted W&C permit.
Actually, MD law makes it illegal to carry in a STATE park, by regulation. It does not address carry in a federal park.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 11:58 AM #46
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Good information on this post. Clears up a lot on this park thing.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 03:18 PM #47
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ME State Police have amended their stance on permits in Arcadia National Park. Either a ME permit or a permit from a reciprocal state will be legal. ME does not recognize any NR permits however, so if we want to carry there, get a ME permit. I did
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Old June 19th, 2017, 05:09 PM #48
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What about National Wilderness, such as Dolly Sods? I would assume that since the state is now constitutional carry, the same would apply there (and I haven't found anything in the Googlesphere that would contradict that position, other than that long guns may still be prohibited on Sundays).
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Old June 19th, 2017, 05:29 PM #49
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Dolly Sods is a designated wilderness area which is inside a National Forest. National Forests are managed be the US Forest Service, an agency within the dept. Of agriculture.

The above mentioned 2009 Credit Card Act provisions only pertain to National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges. Both types of public lands are managed by their respective agencies within the dept. of the interior.

It would have to be some other law or regulation that permits one to carry on National Forest lands. I am not aware of that sort of law but that does not mean it does not exist.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 06:49 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedsurf View Post
Dolly Sods is a designated wilderness area which is inside a National Forest. National Forests are managed be the US Forest Service, an agency within the dept. Of agriculture.

The above mentioned 2009 Credit Card Act provisions only pertain to National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges. Both types of public lands are managed by their respective agencies within the dept. of the interior.

It would have to be some other law or regulation that permits one to carry on National Forest lands. I am not aware of that sort of law but that does not mean it does not exist.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...rdb5066182.pdf

Quote:
Laws Regarding Firearms on National Forest Lands
First, the primary laws governing possession of firearms and other weapons on National
Forest are State Laws. These laws were developed by the states following establishment
of our Cooperative Wildlife Management Agreements. Most notable of the state laws
concerns controlling firearms on the National Forest are “cased gun laws”.
Cased Gun Laws: As the name implies, this law requires that all firearms on National
Forest be unloaded and kept in a case. Virginia and West Virginia have similar “cased
gun laws”. In order to allow hunting, these laws make an exception.
• It is legal to have loaded firearms on National Forest during the authorized
general firearms and muzzle loading gun seasons for bear, deer, grouse, pheasant,
quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, or waterfowl. This exception is very
specific and applies only during the period when it is legal to take these listed
species and doesn’t include carrying the loaded weapons in a vehicle.
• Because hunting on Sunday is prohibited, carrying a loaded gun on National
Forest is not legal on Sunday even if it is the Sunday in the middle of the general
firearms deer season.
• The second exception to this law allows people with a concealed weapon permit
to carry a loaded, concealed, handgun either on their person or in their vehicle
while on National Forest. This does not apply if the person is engaged in a
primitive weapons season or chase only season.
• People muzzle loading or bow hunting may carry a concealed weapon as long as
they possess a concealed weapon permit.
Discharging a firearm, crossbow, or bow and arrow in or across a road or within
the right-of-way of any road is prohibited by both State and Federal Law.
Any person convicted of a felony may not legally possess firearms on National Forest.
Reckless use or handling firearms: It is a violation of both Federal and State law to
handle any firearm in a careless and reckless manner or hunt while under the influence of
intoxicants or narcotic drugs.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 07:08 PM #51
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Yeah, i've read that. Seems dated, in that it doesn't address that concealed carry permits are no longer required, and doesn't differentiate between national forest and national wilderness areas.

Maybe i'll just call the ranger and ask.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 07:13 PM #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
And forum rules prohibit advocating illegal acts
.


Who is advocating for illegal activities?
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Old June 19th, 2017, 07:15 PM #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abulg1972 View Post
Who is advocating for illegal activities?
how about this? even a question asking about something illegal is a bad idea.

RIF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Steel View Post

Having just gotten my national parks card, if like to visit some national parks and am planning on getting a Virginia permit. To me, it's horribly unfair that some people can carry guns in a wilderness area with no cops and few rangers, and others can't.

Is it a good idea to carry anyway and be discreet, or is it a bad idea?

Thanks!
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Old June 19th, 2017, 07:16 PM #54
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handgunlaw.us says it's ok.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/FAQ.pdf

Quote:
#6 Question: Can I carry in a National Park/National Wildlife Refuge?
Answer: Yes on February 22, 2010. The law was struck down and then passed again and does not take effect
till February 22, 2010. When the law goes into effect if you can legally carry a concealed firearm in the state
the National Park/National Wildlife Refuge is located in you are legal to carry in NP’s/ NWMA’s in that state.
If you can not legally carry concealed in the state you are in then you can not carry in the NP’s/NWMA’s in that
state. You can not carry into any federally owned buildings in National Parks/National Wildlife Refuges as
other federal laws ban the carrying of firearms in federal buildings.
Note: National Monuments, National Preserves, National Historic Sites/Parks, National Rivers, National
Memorials, National Recreation Areas and National Seashores all fall under the National Park Service which
the Department of Interior operates. This means all these places listed allow carry there if you can legally carry
in the state the above mentioned are located. Do be aware that all buildings used for official business are off
limits. See 18 USC Sec 930 below. Federal Buildings must be posted or you must be informed they are a
federal building.
and

Quote:
#7 Question: Can I carry in National Forests?
Answer: Some states have state laws against carrying in a National Forest. You must be aware of the state
law. There is no Federal Law restricting Concealed Carry in a National Forest. You can see if carry in National
Forests in any state is legal by clicking on the state on the main page map you want info about. That states page
will open when you click on the map. Do be advised that any building on the National Forest belonging to the
Federal Government is off limits to concealed carry even if you can legally carry in the National Forest in that
state. They are considered Federal Buildings.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/westvirginia.pdf

Quote:
Carry Allowed in these Areas:
State Parks: YES WVDNR St. Park Carry
State/National Forests: YES Per WVDNR
State WMA’s: YES Per WVDNR
Road Side Rest Areas: YES §61-7-11a.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 11:39 PM #55
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The USFS rules to follow the surrounding States carry laws predate the 2009 Credit Card Bill. That was the inspiration, to bring National Parks in line with National Forrests.

Main thing left is to address carry in properties administered by Corps of Engineers . ( Yes, ACE has lots of properties with lots of acres open to public for recreation, camping, hunting, etc )
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Old June 19th, 2017, 11:46 PM #56
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Agreed. It looks like state law dictates for natl. Forest service land as well. I think I read a provision in the SHARE act currently going through congress that addresses the ACE lands.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 04:15 AM #57
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Holy Shit am I confused!
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Old June 20th, 2017, 06:05 AM #58
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Carry follows state law, except COE for now. IIRC there are either lawsuits or legislation pending on those.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 11:02 AM #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatSeeker View Post
Holy Shit am I confused!
If carry is prohibited in "state parks"
Then carry is prohibited in the "national park" in that state.

Carry is prohibited in state parks in MD.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 11:24 AM #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrueChief View Post
If carry is prohibited in "state parks"
Then carry is prohibited in the "national park" in that state.

Carry is prohibited in state parks in MD.


Yup

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maryland.pdf

Carry In State Parks//WMA/Road Side Rest Areas & St. /Nat. Forests
Carry Allowed in these Areas:
State Parks: NO Admin Code 08.07.06.04
State/National Forests: NO See Admin Code 08.07.01.04
State WMA’s: Unknown
Road Side Rest Areas: YES per MSP and Admin Code 11.04.07.12

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