Go Back   Maryland Shooters > Gun Rights and Legislation > National 2A Issues

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 19th, 2017, 04:05 PM #1051
jcutonilli jcutonilli is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 448
jcutonilli jcutonilli is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
If that's the case, then why did Heller have to explicitly hold that the right which is protected is an individual one?

My question isn't about the lower courts raising issues. It's about whether or not they're bound by Supreme Court precedent when said precedent isn't explicitly raised by either party.
The prefatory clause causes some confusion as to whether it is an individual one or a collective one. The district court felt it was a collective right as did four of the justices. Explicitly holding that it is an individual one clarifies the issue.

I don't know the specific answer to the court question, but if neither party raises the issue, the only party left is the court raising the issue. This is why I answered the question the way I did.
jcutonilli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2017, 05:54 PM #1052
press1280 press1280 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: WV
Posts: 3,703
press1280 press1280 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: WV
Posts: 3,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Does Peruta present a similar argument to the previous loses ? We may already have our answer then. Shew, I'll be in the reloading section.
Basically the same argument. Only difference now is Norman's ruling creating a split plus the unusual history of this case (en banc, state intervention,exc.).
press1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2017, 10:18 PM #1053
kcbrown's Avatar
kcbrown kcbrown is offline
Super Genius
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,175
kcbrown kcbrown is offline
Super Genius
kcbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcutonilli View Post
The prefatory clause causes some confusion as to whether it is an individual one or a collective one. The district court felt it was a collective right as did four of the justices. Explicitly holding that it is an individual one clarifies the issue.
That's most certainly true. But if clarification was necessary at that point, then it means there was no definitive/consistent treatment of it as an individual right prior to that.


Quote:
I don't know the specific answer to the court question, but if neither party raises the issue, the only party left is the court raising the issue. This is why I answered the question the way I did.
Hmm ... how might one go about discovering the answer?
kcbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 08:03 AM #1054
Inigoes's Avatar
Inigoes Inigoes is offline
Head'n for the hills
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SoMD / West PA
Posts: 36,337
Inigoes Inigoes is offline
Head'n for the hills
Inigoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SoMD / West PA
Posts: 36,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
Basically the same argument. Only difference now is Norman's ruling creating a split plus the unusual history of this case (en banc, state intervention,exc.).
Has Norman even filed for cert? Isn't getting close to the end of the window?

We may only have to wait until Thursday to find out either way.
__________________
Life is tough, life is tougher when you are stupid.
Inigoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 08:43 AM #1055
press1280 press1280 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: WV
Posts: 3,703
press1280 press1280 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: WV
Posts: 3,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigoes View Post
Has Norman even filed for cert? Isn't getting close to the end of the window?

We may only have to wait until Thursday to find out either way.
Norman has another month I think. It got the clock stopped by asking the FL supremes for a rehearing.
press1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 09:12 AM #1056
Inigoes's Avatar
Inigoes Inigoes is offline
Head'n for the hills
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SoMD / West PA
Posts: 36,337
Inigoes Inigoes is offline
Head'n for the hills
Inigoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SoMD / West PA
Posts: 36,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
Norman has another month I think. It got the clock stopped by asking the FL supremes for a rehearing.
There is no incentive for the SCOTUS to wait for Norman then. We will most likely hear about Peruta either Thursday or Monday. I seriously doubt they will hold Peruta over the summer.
__________________
Life is tough, life is tougher when you are stupid.
Inigoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 10:01 AM #1057
danb's Avatar
danb danb is online now
These are not your droids
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Howard County
Posts: 12,101
danb danb is online now
These are not your droids
danb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Howard County
Posts: 12,101
The only reason they would hold Peruta over the summer is if we are getting a PC opinion.

Just to reiterate the stats, Supreme Court tends to be light on grants until the last conference of June. The avg # grants the 4th conference is ~9, the avg number of grants per conference the 7 prior weeks is one or two.

I think that there are a number of cases that stand a decent (>40%) chance of being granted cert. We may get as many as 13 grants on Monday!
__________________
"More importantly, where a state permits individuals to openly carry firearms, the exercise of this right, without more, cannot justify an investigatory detention. Permitting such a justification would eviscerate Fourth Amendment protections for lawfully armed individuals in those states."

http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions...d/115084.p.pdf
danb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 11:23 AM #1058
777GSOTB 777GSOTB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 204
777GSOTB 777GSOTB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
Norman has another month I think. It got the clock stopped by asking the FL supremes for a rehearing.
04/13/2017 DISP-REHEARING DY Petitioner's Amended Motion for Rehearing, Reconsideration and Clarification is hereby denied.

Yup,...looks like they have until July 13th.
777GSOTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 01:06 PM #1059
JC92's Avatar
JC92 JC92 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MD
Posts: 84
JC92 JC92 is offline
Junior Member
JC92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MD
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigoes View Post
There is no incentive for the SCOTUS to wait for Norman then. We will most likely hear about Peruta either Thursday or Monday. I seriously doubt they will hold Peruta over the summer.
Why wouldn't the opportunity to combine Peruta and Norman be advantageous to SCOTUS? This would allow SCOTUS to address both Open Carry (Norman) and the G&S ruse in CA that is used to dissuade almost everyone from applying in the first place.
JC92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 01:11 PM #1060
Inigoes's Avatar
Inigoes Inigoes is offline
Head'n for the hills
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SoMD / West PA
Posts: 36,337
Inigoes Inigoes is offline
Head'n for the hills
Inigoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SoMD / West PA
Posts: 36,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC92 View Post
Why wouldn't the opportunity to combine Peruta and Norman be advantageous to SCOTUS? This would allow SCOTUS to address both Open Carry (Norman) and the G&S ruse in CA that is used to dissuade almost everyone from applying in the first place.
Norman has to petition the court first, which has not been done to date. As pointed out earlier in this thread they have until the middle of July.
__________________
Life is tough, life is tougher when you are stupid.
Inigoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > Gun Rights and Legislation > National 2A Issues


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
2017, Congregate Media, LP Privacy Policy Terms of Service