Lee Load All II

Melnic · Aug 20, 2021

FINALLY tried out the Lee Load All 12 Gauge.

ONLY issue I had was in the crimp.

Seemed like it was not pulling down enough of the plastic to fold over.

My first 2 were reject.

First one was not started enough and left a big hole.

2nd one I pushed down too hard and it collapsed

Next 8 came out like the 2 on the right.

Any suggestions to achieve better consistency. I think the problem is on the crimp starting?

Speedluvn · Aug 21, 2021

Seems like an adjustment issues that you might have worked out. What do the other crimps look like?

Melnic · Aug 21, 2021

Speedluvn said:
Seems like an adjustment issues that you might have worked out. What do the other crimps look like?

the other 6 look like the 2 on the right. Just enough closure that no pellets (7 1/2) fall out, but not as tight as original Win AA shells look like.

BTW, suggestions on using a chronograph?

tallen702 · Aug 21, 2021

With my Load All II, I've found that certain brands don't crimp down as well as others. Conditioning the hull will give you better crimps regardless of the brand of hull. https://www.ballisticproducts.com/m...-large-bore-10ga-to-20ga/productinfo/SPINDOC/

HiStandards · Aug 21, 2021

There isn't much adjustment to the Load All II. Wad pressure is not as critical with plastic wads as it was with fiber wads. A collapsed crimp (1st shell) could be caused by crushing the wad so there isn't enough volume to fill the shell. Conversely, too much powder, wad or shot prevents the crimp from closing (2nd shell). You may have got the hang of things for the rest. I have a Load All II somewhere. I have switched to MEC. More expensive, but infinitely better.

Aamdskeetshooter · Aug 21, 2021

Can you post the load? AA HS hulls are finicky. There are published loads that don’t fit because of the design of the hull. You can’t use a bulky powder. If you do you have to swap out the wad to one that has a shorter midsection.

Doco Overboard · Aug 21, 2021

I have one of those in the attic that I used to carry for reloading while dove hunting.
Cant remember specifically for the perfect crimp other than certain hulls were better than the others. I also seem to remember actuation of the shot bar had a lot to do with it as well as how much pressure was applied when seating the wad.
Many times they were just good enough to not spill any shot and even more pellets were sent to the never lands hole in the petals and all.
I bet I still have boxes of reloaded shot shells with pellets rolling around the bottom of them around here somewhere.
Bet its been three decades nearly since I messed with that thing.
I always used # 6 shot for dove hunting. If your worried about speed the smaller the pellet often the higher the pressure when reloading shot shells which can blow patterns.

Melnic · Aug 21, 2021

Aamdskeetshooter said:
Can you post the load? AA HS hulls are finicky. There are published loads that don’t fit because of the design of the hull. You can’t use a bulky powder. If you do you have to swap out the wad to one that has a shorter midsection.

Win AA hulls
WAA12 Wads
1 1/8oz 7 1/2 shot
17.0 gr Clays
Rio 209 Primers
Hodgdon shows 1145fps

Speedluvn · Aug 21, 2021

Melnic said:
the other 6 look like the 2 on the right. Just enough closure that no pellets (7 1/2) fall out, but not as tight as original Win AA shells look like.

BTW, suggestions on using a chronograph?

I have a 650 and Grabber and their instructions explain how to correct the various crimping issues.
Does the Lee Loader manual provide any information?

6Den · Aug 21, 2021

Try switching to Remington Gun Club or STS hulls. I find them much easier to crimp than AAs.

Aamdskeetshooter · Aug 21, 2021

Have you had any more problems since the first two loads? If not I would continue until you do. If the issue does continue you have several options.

1. Use either a 1 1/4 oz. AA-stye wad or a Downrange DRA12 bronze wad.
2. Use a denser powder, such as titwad or Nitro 100, that will take up less room than the bulky Clays.
3. The simplest-drop 1 oz. of shot instead of 1 1/8. Change nothing else.
4. Change to one of the Remington hulls.

Melnic · Aug 21, 2021

Here is what the manual says:

CRIMP PROBLEMS
Bad crimps are almost always due to using
the wrong starter or not having the correct
wad. This is frequently due to incorrect or
outdated information found in reloading
handbooks or literature supplied by component
manufacturers. If you don’t get a good crimp,
check your components and bushings. If they
are correct, change to a suitable length wad.
See the important message below STATION 5
instructions.

IMPORTANT
A good crimp can only be
obtained if the wad is the correct length.
After the shot is added, there should be
about 1/2 inch of shell above the shot on a
12 gauge; about 7/16 inch for the 20 gauge;
and just slightly more for the 16 gauge. If
the crimp is too deep with a hole in the cen-
ter, use a longer wad. Mashed in crimps or
crushed cases indicate the wad should be
shorter.

I do have some gun club boxes I have not shot and collected yet and I"m sure there are plenty at the club field (AGC) in the trash can.
I"m not inclined to change wads or powder w/o either dealing what I have or trying to work it out as I already have what I have.

Doco Overboard · Aug 21, 2021

IMPORTANT
A good crimp can only be
obtained if the wad is the correct length.

I think I mentioned, how much pressure you place when seating the wad has a little something to do with it.
Because a shot-shell is a column,if you crush the wad or overly compress it, there will be more volume available underneath the crimp.
Another sign is when you go back and look at your perfectly formed crimps the next day, and the petals have opened up, the wad relaxing as well as the hull elasticity stretching back out and moving upwards could be the culprit.

Those things if if remember correctly have a myriad of shot and charge bushings to sort out. The rapidity of how you work the charge bar is important too.

Also, look at the fingers that form the petals to make sure they are fully compatible with whatever hulls you have on hand for best results.
Bet you get it to one or two problem shells per every two boxes once you figure it out.

Then you'll get a good run on and then the problem will re surface again on three or more per box.
Loaded a gazillion shell with one of those things. Back when they talked about having to have a hip permit one day.

Happy shotgunning this year, were cutting a couple of acres of sun flowers real soon and I may go out this year again.

Melnic · Aug 21, 2021

I found this post on another forum:

First of all, there are inumerable loads listed in Lyman's and in the powder companies reloading manuals that really don't fit very well and are not 'good' loads. They are safe, they just don't load wortha hoot.

Secondly, you have run into the issue that makes me detest the LLA the most. You must find an exactly perfect combo of components to get decent loads that crimp well. The LLA is very unforgiving of loads that require a lot of 'tweaking'. As you are aware, the LLA has NO adjustments, unlike bettter quality, and higher priced, machines. That doesn't mean you can't get decent reloads from the LLA, jst that you have to search around until you get just the right component combo. Combinations that will load fine on a MEC simply will not load on an LLA. With the LLA you must develop a 'feel' for wad seating and crimp pressure.

Melnic · Aug 21, 2021

Hmm
OAL of the factory win AA shells are 2.265-2.290”
My reloads are 2.320-2.345”

Factory gun club is 2.310-2.315”

I can knock about .010-.020” off by shimming under the shell in the loader

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aamdskeetshooter · Aug 21, 2021

Melnic said:
Hmm
OAL of the factory win AA shells are 2.265-2.290”
My reloads are 2.320-2.345”

Factory gun club is 2.310-2.315”

I can knock about .010-.020” off by shimming under the shell in the loader

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve never measured OAL on a shotgun shell. And I’ve been reloading for 35 years. Can you put more pre-crimp on the hull? That will force more plastic to the center of the crimp. Thereby reducing the length and will closing the hole in the middle of the crimp.

Speedluvn · Aug 21, 2021

OP,
What’s the load recipe? I’ve learned from another forum that changing reloading components can alter pressures. Stay with published loads to stay safe. I’ve found that powder manufacturers have more of a variety of loads listed on their websites.
Your crimps look ok. I’ve shot shells with crimps that look much worst than yours.
I don’t have a chronograph but considered purchasing one to get an idea of where my reloads rate against factory loads.

Melnic · Aug 21, 2021

Aamdskeetshooter said:
I’ve never measured OAL on a shotgun shell. And I’ve been reloading for 35 years. Can you put more pre-crimp on the hull? That will force more plastic to the center of the crimp. Thereby reducing the length and will closing the hole in the middle of the crimp.

I measured the OAL in order to look at how the crimp was coming out since I do not have the experience, was gathering data. Longer OAL showed me something was different between factory and my reloads with the crimp (shoulder?)
Yes, I should have mentioned that after the first one, I worked more on the pre crimp. I can't recall if the collapsed one happened on over working the pre crimp or the final crimp cause I did not notice it till the end.
I do agree that the pre crimp was part of the original failure.
I need to put some white paint/marker on the final crimp cylinder and base so I can tell when I'm all the way down.

Speedluvn said:
OP,
What’s the load recipe? I’ve learned from another forum that changing reloading components can alter pressures. Stay with published loads to stay safe. I’ve found that powder manufacturers have more of a variety of loads listed on their websites.
Your crimps look ok. I’ve shot shells with crimps that look much worst than yours.
I don’t have a chronograph but considered purchasing one to get an idea of where my reloads rate against factory loads.

Load recipe already posted.
https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=6403615&postcount=8

Aamdskeetshooter · Aug 21, 2021

If the machine is loading like the 2 on the right just keep loading as long as you’re not getting the buckling. If the hull varies in length it will change your crimp. Remington hulls are notorious for this. You set the crimp so you never get a hole. The longer hulls will have a slight swirl in the center due to more plastic being there. The length I’m talking about is prior to reloading, not the finished shell.

Melnic · Aug 22, 2021

Took the 12 Gauge Win AA hull reloads to the range today. Shot a few on paper at the Patterning area. Compared it to some factory Win AA and appeared on par and slightly slower as predicted by reloading tables.
Used a chronograph to compare these to factory.
Win AA Factory , Label 1200fps, 5 shot average measured 1228fps
Reloads, Formula 1145fps, 5 shot average measured 1186fps
Gun Club Factory, Label 1200fps, 5 shot average measured 1205fps

Shotgun used was a single shot Webley with fixed modified choke

Lee Load All II

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics