National Reciprocity - It Begins

jonnyl · Feb 22, 2011

That is a thing of beauty...

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
The Congress finds the following:
(1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States protects the fundamental right of an individual to keep and bear arms, including for purposes of individual self-defense.
(2) The Supreme Court of the United States has recognized this right in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, and in the case of McDonald v. City of Chicago, has recognized that the right is protected against State infringement by the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
(3) The Congress has the power to pass legislation to protect against infringement of all rights protected under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
(4) The right to bear arms includes the right to carry arms for self-defense and the defense of others.
(5) The Congress has enacted legislation of national scope authorizing the carrying of concealed firearms by qualified active and retired law enforcement officers.
(6) Forty-eight States provide by statute for the issuance to individuals of permits to carry concealed firearms, or allow the carrying of concealed
firearms for lawful purposes without the need for a permit.
(7) The overwhelming majority of individuals who exercise the right to carry firearms in their own States and other States have proven to be law-abiding, and such carrying has been demonstrated to provide crime prevention or crime resistance benefits for the licensees and for others.
(8) The Congress finds that preventing the lawful carrying of firearms by individuals who are traveling outside their home State interferes with the constitutional right of interstate travel, and harms interstate commerce.
(9) Among the purposes of this Act is the protection of the rights, privileges, and immunities guaranteed to a citizen of the United States by the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
(10) The Congress, therefore, should provide for national recognition, in States that issue to their own citizens licenses or permits to carry concealed handguns, of other State permits or licenses to carry concealed handguns.

Fideo · Feb 22, 2011

swinokur said:
I guess Slaughterhouse is still alive.

I am not a lawyer. Does this really draw on Slaughter-House for justification? The bill doesn't as much define state law as it does regulate interstate recognition of concealed carry permits.

It only grants reciprocity in states that issue permits to their own residents and doesn't seem to seek to change any aspect of states gun laws.

To me this seems to be directly analogous to drivers licenses. This actually seems to be something that should fall under interstate commerce.

Patrick · Feb 22, 2011

Fideo said:
I am not a lawyer. Does this really draw on Slaughter-House for justification? The bill doesn't as much define state law as it does regulate interstate recognition of concealed carry permits.

It only grants reciprocity in states that issue permits to their own residents and doesn't seem to seek to change any aspect of states gun laws.

To me this seems to be directly analogous to drivers licenses. This actually seems to be something that should fall under interstate commerce.

Bingo.

(8) The Congress finds that preventing the lawful carrying of firearms by individuals who are traveling outside their home State interferes with the constitutional right of interstate travel, and harms interstate commerce.
(9) Among the purposes of this Act is the protection of the rights, privileges, and immunities guaranteed to a citizen of the United States by the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

Note the P&I reference there.

TurboHeloDriver · Feb 22, 2011

Hopalong said:
Nice. If it weren't for Wollard, I'd be tempted to move to Virginia and get a CCW just so I could carry in Maryland if this passes.

Simple solution, just get a Non-resident CCW permit from Virginia, then carry here unrestricted. That's what I'll be doing the minute this passes.

TurboHeloDriver · Feb 22, 2011

WeaponsCollector said:
I will not be happy until there is national CONSTITUTIONAL carry.
Free citizens should never require a "permit" to carry concealed weapons.

Agreed, but this is still a step in the right direction.

jonnyl · Feb 22, 2011

Chopper4Pilot said:
Simple solution, just get a Non-resident CCW permit from Virginia, then carry here unrestricted. That's what I'll be doing the minute this passes.

non-res won't work with this bill. But if MD bill HB-9 passes VA would work here.

swinokur · Feb 22, 2011

Fideo said:
I am not a lawyer. Does this really draw on Slaughter-House for justification? The bill doesn't as much define state law as it does regulate interstate recognition of concealed carry permits.

It only grants reciprocity in states that issue permits to their own residents and doesn't seem to seek to change any aspect of states gun laws.

To me this seems to be directly analogous to drivers licenses. This actually seems to be something that should fall under interstate commerce.

Except MD will issue me a DL, not a CCW permit. Huge difference in my mind.

If I am correct it says your Federal due process rights are not a state issue. Patrick will correct me if I am wrong as usual.

swinokur · Feb 22, 2011

Patrick said:
Bingo.

(8) The Congress finds that preventing the lawful carrying of firearms by individuals who are traveling outside their home State interferes with the constitutional right of interstate travel, and harms interstate commerce.

(9) Among the purposes of this Act is the protection of the rights, privileges, and immunities guaranteed to a citizen of the United States by the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

Note the P&I reference there.

Yes but every state issues DL's. How do you apply a due process protection to only state residents that issue CCW's?

swinokur · Feb 22, 2011

Chopper4Pilot said:
Simple solution, just get a Non-resident CCW permit from Virginia, then carry here unrestricted. That's what I'll be doing the minute this passes.

The law says home state. Unfortunately when it comes to CCW, we're homeless.

:sad20:

BUFF7MM · Feb 22, 2011

Any idea of when this bill will be heard?

Patrick · Feb 22, 2011

buff7mm said:
Any idea of when this bill will be heard?

It's in House Judiciary. Probably won't get heard for a week or two at best. Keep in mind the critters have this week off.

More likely it gets heard around the time the Senate side gets on with Thune and his amendment. I am guessing Thune will attach to the budget limit increase. Not sure when that is scheduled to come up..but I know it is soon.

BUFF7MM · Feb 22, 2011

I hope this rolls through, It should really help with our push for shall issue.

Patrick · Feb 22, 2011

Another point about the text of the bill: as written it says that a state must accept permits issued by a state, unless the person is a resident of the state in question.

So this:

(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law ..., and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun ... that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that—

Been going around with some other people at CalGuns and we all agree: this means your non-resident Florida permit is good everywhere but Maryland (and Illinois and Wisconsin). The only place it fails is your home state and in states that offer no permit.

So if WI and IL change their laws to issue permits this year, the only place in this nation you could not carry would be your home state.

That is what we call serious pressure.

BUFF7MM · Feb 22, 2011

Frosh is probably having a meltdown reading into what this bill would mean for his power over gun owner rights in Maryland.

Patrick · Feb 22, 2011

buff7mm said:
Frosh is probably having a meltdown reading into what this bill would mean for his power over gun owner rights in Maryland.

He'll be pleased to know that the people of 49 states will be able to carry in Montgomery County.

I expect to see some jurisdictions trying to slap Disorderly Conduct on carriers in lieu of possession. The text of this bill is strong though - "fundamental right" and the need for people to carry for defense of themselves and others. The will of Congress will trump localities.

Those "findings" are also what you could call an "affirmative defense".

28Shooter · Feb 22, 2011

buff7mm said:
I hope this rolls through, It should really help with our push for shall issue.

It'll sure give our liberal anti folks something to think about - the lawful citizenry carrying concealed and no Armageddon - what a concept!

press1280 · Feb 22, 2011

I'm also looking closely at this part:

‘‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or
‘‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

I'm thinking this could cover DC as well since their CCW statutes are still in place. I think the Thune Amendment last year said something like "state that issues carry permits", which would probably eliminate DC. This is the language I was hoping for.

Patrick · Feb 22, 2011

DC is included.

One more reason for the residents to move to the burbs. Move to Virginia and carry in Maryland and DC.

Atlasarmory · Feb 22, 2011

Patrick said:
DC is included.

One more reason for the residents to move to the burbs. Move to Virginia and carry in Maryland and DC.

+1000

Fideo · Feb 22, 2011

Patrick said:
DC is included.

One more reason for the residents to move to the burbs. Move to Virginia and carry in Maryland and DC.

I'd love not having to worry about getting on 66 headed the wrong way. Unfortunately it wouldn't help me too much in DC, as I am always going in to meet in Federal buildings.

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