PA no longer honors UT

Brooklyn · May 12, 2014

swinokur said:
Imagine if the states played these games with DL's. How long would that last? And DL's are a priviledge, not a right, in theory anyway.

I'd probably be ok with federal reciprocity but never federal licensing.

Sorry we need federal Lic. Federal standards with a federal safe harbor. Leosa is the model. We will just part ways on this. I intend to lobby federally...

Federalism is dead. Let's get on with it, while there is still time to prevent the cf.

K-Romulus · May 12, 2014

PAFOA discussion on the events; includes links to Utah state website that now shows that UT stopped recognizing PA permits. >>
http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-10/254514-pa-no-longer-recognizing-utah-non-res-permits.html

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MikeTF · May 12, 2014

Wow! A Utah non-resident permit is harder to obtain and more stringent than a VA resident permit, yet my VA resident permit is honored by PA? That makes no sense to me at all.

Keystone70 · May 12, 2014

MikeTF said:
Wow! A Utah non-resident permit is harder to obtain and more stringent than a VA resident permit, yet my VA resident permit is honored by PA? That makes no sense to me at all.

Exactly

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redeemed.man · May 12, 2014

There goes the primary reason I got the UT permit. Now I have to plan a trip to PA to get another damn permit. :mad54:

swinokur · May 12, 2014

Without a MD permit, you cannot get a PA permit.

Do you have a MD permit?

lucky fella if you do.

redeemed.man · May 12, 2014

swinokur said:
Without a MD permit, you cannot get a PA permit.

I know, fortunately I have a MD permit.

ryan_j · May 12, 2014

Fewer and fewer PA sheriffs are issuing non-resident LTCFs.

http://www.pikepa.org/Sheriffs/NonResident.pdf

alucard0822 · May 12, 2014

MikeTF said:
Wow! A Utah non-resident permit is harder to obtain and more stringent than a VA resident permit, yet my VA resident permit is honored by PA? That makes no sense to me at all.

Bloomberg bought the position for her, so no surprise she's raising as much havoc as she can before she is gone. Her impeachment is in the works, the Governor's own legal team is pushing it, and she has plenty of ethical violations and scandals to answer for. Pulling this late on mother's day Sunday is a new, but expected low. This was the situation from last week, I've been contacting reps about this for months, luckily most of the damage is relatively easy to reverse after she is out.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20140506_ap_7cfff37b94e647bbbb064d1837936bb4.html

As far as the comments on a national CCW permit scheme FOOK NO!!!! I wouldn't be opposed to a simple universal reciprocity as has been presented in the past, where every state must recognize a permit from any state, but anything beyond that has the potential for disaster. What do you think would come from Obama, Holder and co determining training, live fire, permit, licensing, and registration for CCW permits. PA's process is simple, no training, no prints, just a background check similar to the purchase requirement, and $20 for 5 years, never been any problems as a result, and it's a BIG state with lots of LTCFs issued. Ideally "shall not be infringed" would mean just that, no permit, no problem, the 2A is your carry permit.

ADR · May 12, 2014

There's actually a comical side to the whole thing.

Anti-gun A.G. does her best to chip away at "evil guns" being carried in the state by slowly removing/altering reciprocity agreements. (Of course she's going to go after licenses from other states, if she went after PA licenses she'd have a fight she couldn't win.)

As a result of her "It's for the children" legal prowess, many people who could once legally carry concealed will now carry openly allowing the entire state of Pennsylvania to see what a great job she did getting guns off the streets.

moojersey · May 12, 2014

ryan_j said:
Just be careful

No OC in Phila

Well no OC in Philadelphia unless you have a PA LTCF. Even still I wouldn't advise OC in Philly. You're just asking to be hassled by the po po.

Brooklyn · May 12, 2014

alucard0822 said:
Bloomberg bought the position for her, so no surprise she's raising as much havoc as she can before she is gone. Her impeachment is in the works, the Governor's own legal team is pushing it, and she has plenty of ethical violations and scandals to answer for. Pulling this late on mother's day Sunday is a new, but expected low. This was the situation from last week, I've been contacting reps about this for months, luckily most of the damage is relatively easy to reverse after she is out.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20140506_ap_7cfff37b94e647bbbb064d1837936bb4.html

As far as the comments on a national CCW permit scheme FOOK NO!!!! I wouldn't be opposed to a simple universal reciprocity as has been presented in the past, where every state must recognize a permit from any state, but anything beyond that has the potential for disaster. What do you think would come from Obama, Holder and co determining training, live fire, permit, licensing, and registration for CCW permits. PA's process is simple, no training, no prints, just a background check similar to the purchase requirement, and $20 for 5 years, never been any problems as a result, and it's a BIG state with lots of LTCFs issued. Ideally "shall not be infringed" would mean just that, no permit, no problem, the 2A is your carry permit.

Federalism is dead. Get in the debate for national carry or it will happen anyway.. and not on our terms. BTW national Lic does not mandate a Lic for in state carry. Nothing will change for pa residents that do not wish to carry in Md. Etc. Its going to happen with or not we shape the outcome.. so for once let's get in front of the train wreak....

moojersey · May 12, 2014

Also just wanted to add this is a good time for all of us to write our MD reps about this subject while it is still fresh, hell write a few of the PA reps too. It only takes a few minutes to write an email and copy and paste it to all the folks on the totem pole.

ryan_j · May 12, 2014

moojersey said:
Well no OC in Philadelphia unless you have a PA LTCF. Even still I wouldn't advise OC in Philly. You're just asking to be hassled by the po po.

You could OC on any valid permit. I should have said no PLOC in Phila.

redeemed.man · May 12, 2014

ryan_j said:
You could OC on any valid permit. I should have said no PLOC in Phila.

Are you saying you can Open Carry In Philadelphia (at your own risk of course) with any state issued permit regardless of reciprocity?

On another note Adams County will issue non-resident permits and accept them by mail (for those with a permit issued by state of residence). I am mailing the application out today. I will let you guys know when I am approved. I will have to pick it up in person.

ryan_j · May 12, 2014

boundlessdyad said:
Are you saying you can Open Carry In Philadelphia (at your own risk of course) with any state issued permit regardless of reciprocity?

No. I'm saying that you can carry with either a PA LTCF or permit that is recognized or covered under reciprocity.

On another note Adams County will issue non-resident permits and accept them by mail (for those with a permit issued by state of residence). I am mailing the application out today. I will let you guys know when I am approved. I will have to pick it up in person.

Did not know that. I thought they didn't do that anymore.

redeemed.man · May 12, 2014

ryan_j said:
No. I'm saying that you can carry with either a PA LTCF or permit that is recognized or covered under reciprocity.

Did not know that. I thought they didn't do that anymore.

Instructions attached. I guess technically you are not applying until you show up in person to be photographed???? In any event this is on the Adams County website as of today. Mailing in with a copy of my D.L. and MD Handgun Permit. Another strange thing, you don't pay the fee until you pick up. :confused:

swinokur · May 12, 2014

I thought NR permits by mail were no allowed as the sigs and photos must be done electronically.

Has this changed?

http://centrecountypa.gov/index.aspx?NID=405

I'd call and check.

redeemed.man · May 12, 2014

swinokur said:
I thought NR permits by mail were no allowed as the sigs and photos must be done electronically.

Has this changed?

http://centrecountypa.gov/index.aspx?NID=405

Adams says mail is fine. I guess I will find out and let you guys know.

I read your link, I think you have to sign the license and get your photo taken in person. It would appear since Adams will not create the license until I walk in, get photo'ed, and sign it they would be in compliance is my best guess.

ryan_j · May 12, 2014

According to a letter from PA AG to Utah, they killed reciprocity precisely because you can obtain a Utah NR permit without having one in your home state. I would have posted the letter but the print is too small to read.

PA no longer honors UT

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