Hogan Vetoed HB 1343 / SB 1000!

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  • Mightydog

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Imagine if his highness the AG Froshole placed his efforts to this instead of all of it “resisting” and jumping on all the frivolous anti Trump lawsuits!
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,300
    Underground Bunker
    Let me ask an honest question what is Maryland afraid of ?

    When Wash. DC opened up permits and CC , i don't recall blood in the street . Please tell me if DC had an uptick in CC holders jacking people up . And would the criminals be slightly on edge running up to someone and knifing them or even carjacking worrying about coming up against an armed citizen .


    What is the issue ???
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    Well written letter.

    At this point, the Handgun Permit Review Board is just a piece of political symbolism with both parties arguing over something inconsequential since the MSP can appeal each and every HPRB decision to OAH. The MSP probably has deeper pockets than most citizens and can afford to appeal everything.

    What would be really nice is if Hogan were to instruct MSP to relax the "good and substantial"review so more applicants receive their permit AND instruct the MSP to only appeal the most grievous HPRB decisions.

    Here we go with that tired old BS again. Frosh and the MGA would immediately step in and prevent that from ever happening.
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603
    Here we go with that tired old BS again. Frosh and the MGA would immediately step in and prevent that from ever happening.
    Yeah so.......... don't even try right?

    Explain exactly HOW Frosh is in control of the direction of the MSP?
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,003
    Harford County
    Let me ask an honest question what is Maryland afraid of ?

    When Wash. DC opened up permits and CC , i don't recall blood in the street . Please tell me if DC had an uptick in CC holders jacking people up . And would the criminals be slightly on edge running up to someone and knifing them or even carjacking worrying about coming up against an armed citizen .


    What is the issue ???

    The issue is the state loses a little bit of control over us peons.
    They can't be having that!
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,230
    Montgomery County
    Let me ask an honest question what is Maryland afraid of ?

    When Wash. DC opened up permits and CC , i don't recall blood in the street . Please tell me if DC had an uptick in CC holders jacking people up . And would the criminals be slightly on edge running up to someone and knifing them or even carjacking worrying about coming up against an armed citizen .

    What is the issue ???

    You're making the mistake of thinking this has anything, whatsoever, to do with guns. That's a total red herring.

    This has to do with YOU. The liberals that run the Maryland political monoculture hate ... YOU. It's only because, statistically, it's people who lean towards conservatism or libertarianism that also happen to be in favor of personal gun ownership, that they seek to pluck that nerve. They want to injure and divide group of people not fully signed over to their camp (and taking their marching orders). People on our side of the fence, fussing and fighting (and spending money and time) over the nuances of various aspects of 2A advocacy, are kept tied up in knots over that, while the leftists can do what they REALLY want: their adversarial relationship with business owners, their notions of sanctuary virtue signaling, higher taxes, catering to the public employee unions, and such.

    They're not fighting with us about guns. They're pretending to care so that a portion of their political opposition (us) gets singularly obsessed with a fight that only we (really) care about. And while we're locked onto that, we're not talking about property taxes, regulation, transportation, and all of the other places where they flex muscle and rake in money.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Let me ask an honest question what is Maryland afraid of ?

    When Wash. DC opened up permits and CC , i don't recall blood in the street . Please tell me if DC had an uptick in CC holders jacking people up . And would the criminals be slightly on edge running up to someone and knifing them or even carjacking worrying about coming up against an armed citizen .


    What is the issue ???

    The issue is that the Mom's find one or two instances where a CCW holder used a firearm inappropriately and they wave that in front of the politicians and try to make it look like all firearm owners are like that.

    The Moms also would not be packing heat, so they are skeered of others packing heat. They never think that maybe, just maybe, a gun might be able to save their life.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    It just occured to me - Hogan CAN direct the MSPLD NOT to take those appeals to the OAH - but he is NOT exercising such authority. If he really were standing with the HGPRB, he'd be wacking the SSP on the OAH appeals: no such action from Lawn Chair Larry.
     

    CrueChief

    Cocker Dad/RIP Bella
    Apr 3, 2009
    2,999
    Napolis-ish
    It just occured to me - Hogan CAN direct the MSPLD NOT to take those appeals to the OAH - but he is NOT exercising such authority. If he really were standing with the HGPRB, he'd be wacking the SSP on the OAH appeals: no such action from Lawn Chair Larry.

    Watch out talking like that will get you called a hater by some here.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,300
    Underground Bunker
    It just occured to me - Hogan CAN direct the MSPLD NOT to take those appeals to the OAH - but he is NOT exercising such authority. If he really were standing with the HGPRB, he'd be wacking the SSP on the OAH appeals: no such action from Lawn Chair Larry.

    Watch out talking like that will get you called a hater by some here.

    Stop talking like that , no truth bombs here . You both don't get a pudding because your not taking your meat . :innocent0
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    It just occured to me - Hogan CAN direct the MSPLD NOT to take those appeals to the OAH - but he is NOT exercising such authority. If he really were standing with the HGPRB, he'd be wacking the SSP on the OAH appeals: no such action from Lawn Chair Larry.

    Exactly. Hogan grew a set my rear. As long as MSP is appealing everything to OAH, what the HPRB does is irrelevant. The only thing that will matter is what OAH does and how much deference the Circuit Court will give to the OAH hearing. The OAH hearing is a "trial de novo", so the appeal to the Circuit Court is based upon what is done at OAH, not what is done at the HPRB.

    How long ago did OAH enter into this process instead of an appeal from the HPRB going straight to Circuit Court.

    Again, a couple of morons fighting over who shot the trophy whitetail and we are backing one of them for fighting about this and considering this veto a "win".

    This issue was lost when OAH was allowed to enter the mix. Was that on Larry's watch? Did he veto that bill at that time? Maybe it was O'Malley that let the OAH into the door on this process. Maybe Ehrlich. I don't know the answer. Anybody know when OAH entered the mix?
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,058
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    Imagine if his highness the AG Froshole placed his efforts to this instead of all of it “resisting” and jumping on all the frivolous anti Trump lawsuits!

    But then he wouldn't be viewed by the Blue Billionaires as a "Resistance Leader." He couldn't care less about Baltimore or the rest of the state for that matter. He has his eye on a bigger prize in DC, IMO. And that takes BIG money.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,058
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    Let me ask an honest question what is Maryland afraid of ?

    When Wash. DC opened up permits and CC , i don't recall blood in the street . Please tell me if DC had an uptick in CC holders jacking people up . And would the criminals be slightly on edge running up to someone and knifing them or even carjacking worrying about coming up against an armed citizen .


    What is the issue ???

    It's all about control of the sheep. You know that.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    October 1, 2018

    Added - The statute took effect Oct 1, 2018 . But after the first HPRB session in Oct , each side had 30days from receipt of the formal written notice from the HPRB . So probably sometime in December for MSP to initiate first appeals , and then the nominal 90 days for OAH to schedule Hearing .

    So , this is still fresh .
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Did Hogan exceede expectations by veto ? Yes

    But that says a lot more about how low the expectations are , than the magnitude of the action in the big or medium picture .
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    October 1, 2018

    Added - The statute took effect Oct 1, 2018 . But after the first HPRB session in Oct , each side had 30days from receipt of the formal written notice from the HPRB . So probably sometime in December for MSP to initiate first appeals , and then the nominal 90 days for OAH to schedule Hearing .

    So , this is still fresh .

    Yep, the battle was lost on October 1, 2018 when OAH was added to the mix. Now, the HPRB is merely an additional step in the process until the MSP stops appealing every single adverse HPRB decision.

    Maybe we could just say the HPRB is a shell, a figurehead, something to make us feel good. I have no idea why Mom's would even waste political capital on this issue, but if this is the only thing they get in the next decade or two, I can definitely live with it.

    Heck, I think getting rid of HPRB is actually a step in the right direction. Either get rid of HPRB or OAH in the process and speed the process up. If I was appealing a MSP decision on a CCW permit and I knew for a fact that should I win at the HPRB hearing MSP would be appealing to OAH, then just get me to OAH right to begin with and cut down on the wasted time and effort.

    So, we are spending political capital to ask Hogan to veto this bill, when we should have had him veto the bill that added OAH to the mix. However, since OAH being added to the mix is water under the bridge, maybe it might be a better use of time and resources to have Hogan reign in MSP when it comes to CCW issuance and HPRB appeals. Maybe, just maybe, that might be a better use of time and money.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Yes , we fought about this in MGA 2018 Session .

    The Forces of Evil wanted then to abolish the HPRB , and instead adding the OAH to the mix was touted as a comparitive Victory by Hogan/ GOP Delegation .

    ************************

    This all depends on how our side views W&C issues - Actual Permits for actual members of the public , or simply as a vehicle to eventually set a court precedent ?

    ( This paragraph removed, because even I realized it was a wet blanket .)
     

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