Anti argument against reciprocity:Fake Permits

press1280 · Dec 9, 2017

So the antis are making a big deal about "fake permits" being used by criminals and prohibited people in the absence of a 24/7 database.

My questions are:

1) What states currently have a 24/7 database accessible for LEO of other states
2) Can LEO access NICS?
3) If #2 is a no and LEO cannot access a database from another state, and we needed a Senate vote or two, would you be OK with LEOs being able to use NICS as a secondary verification source? My thought is this can be done quickly and will eliminate 99% of any fake or prohibited people. It would also help prevent states like NJ from holding people in jail over the weekend while they wait for the other states' offices to open.

iH8DemLibz · Dec 9, 2017

In other news: Creating fake documentation for illegal aliens is perfectly acceptable.

And to address your concerns, NO, I'm not OK with LE going into NICS to check the validity of anything.

The government already has too much power. Yet citizens, for their own selfish reasons, want to grant more power to the government.

Inigoes · Dec 9, 2017

They do have a 24/7 database to check, NCIC.

If someone pops for a felony, and has a gun permit. They are likely a prohibited person.

This is already being done, btw.

JPG · Dec 9, 2017

Easy fix, open carry for everyone. Problem solved

BeoBill · Dec 9, 2017

JPG said:
Easy fix, open carry for everyone. Problem solved

Works for me. I hope I live that long...

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 9, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
In other news: Creating fake documentation for illegal aliens is perfectly acceptable.

The government creating legal documentation for illegal aliens seems to be perfectly acceptable as well.

Doctor_M · Dec 9, 2017

JPG said:
Easy fix, open carry for everyone. Problem solved

YES!! Because, America. :thumbsup:

iH8DemLibz · Dec 9, 2017

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
The government creating legal documentation for illegal aliens seems to be perfectly acceptable as well.

That's the kicker.

The government will bend over backwards to help illegal alien non-citizens.

But when US born and bred real-citizens ask for our rights to be recognized, our government flips us the bird.

Backwards as can be.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 9, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
That's the kicker.

The government will bend over backwards to help illegal alien non-citizens.

But when US born and bred real-citizens ask for our rights to be recognized, our government flips us the bird.

Backwards as can be.

I'm all for equal rights under the law...but that has to include under the law.

Threeband · Dec 9, 2017

Most states already recognize permits from many other states. They have no problem with counterfeit permits.

This is a phony argument which relies on the audience not realizing that concealed carry is already legal in most of the country, and that the fantasy terrors of "blood in the streets" and "shootouts at stop signs" simply do not occur.

Think about that: concealed carry is already legal in most of the country, and most people don't even realize it simply because the mythical terrors do not exist.

swinokur · Dec 9, 2017

Many LEO's can access other states' permit database through NLETS. The problem is many don't.

access map below
.

Rab1515 · Dec 9, 2017

Threeband said:
Think about that: concealed carry is already legal in most of the country, and most people don't even realize it simply because the mythical terrors do not exist.

Concealed carry is legal in ALL states, most of them, all but 9 are shall issue.

ohen cepel · Dec 9, 2017

Simply more lies, fear-mongering, and stupidity from the left.

A felon with a gun is a felon with a gun, fake permit or not.

rbird7282 · Dec 9, 2017

Just more proof Dems are full of sh*t. They don't seem to care about doing anything about illegal Social Security cards, licenses, or any number of other things yet they bring up the possibility of illegal CCW permits and it's "OMG the sky is falling"
F them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Threeband · Dec 9, 2017

You know, it really disturbs me to think any 16 year old kid can get a License to Drive a ton of steel down the public road, can get that license in some jerkwater state like Idaho or Arkansas (with lord knows what training) and then use that license in any other state, no matter how different the driving conditions may be.

And how is a police officer in California or New York, when presented with a supposed "driver's license" from some no-account state no one ever heard of, like "Indiana" or "Delaware," how, I say, how is that police officer supposed to determine if the license is real or a clever fake?

Such a scheme could never work. It is a recipe for chaos and disaster. Blood would flow in the streets. There would be confusion at stop signs. Untrained hayseeds from Flyover Country would attempt to pump their own gas in New Jersey. Dogs marrying cats, men marrying women... where would it end?

swamplynx · Dec 9, 2017

swinokur said:
Many LEO's can access otherst states' permit database through NLETS. The problem is many don't.

access map below
.

In our current world, I'd have to say that is a "feature" more than a "problem." Do you really want MSP or a NJ statie knowing you have a VA NR permit on a traffic stop? All of a sudden your VA CHP becomes probable cause for a Bolshevik storm trooper to detain you and search your vehicle.

swamplynx · Dec 9, 2017

Rab1515 said:
Concealed carry is legal in ALL states, most of them, all but 9 are shall issue.

Realistically only 5 are MD style may issue. CA, HI, MD, NJ, NY (NYC), MA (Boston). DE, CT, and RI have some idiotic hoops to jump through, but you don't need a "good and substantial reason." Many counties in CA are essentially shall issue. Same for most of MA, and NY.

Summed up, we are looking at the entire country vs. a concentration of communists in coastal CA, HI, NYC, NJ, MD, and Boston (and their conspirators). Everywhere else in the country is already carrying legally.

rseymorejr · Dec 9, 2017

swamplynx said:
In our current world, I'd have to say that is a "feature" more than a "problem." Do you really want MSP or a NJ statie knowing you have a VA NR permit on a traffic stop? All of a sudden your VA CHP becomes probable cause for a Bolshevik storm trooper to detain you and search your vehicle.

If NJ was forced to recognize that VA NR permit there shouldn't be an issue

swamplynx · Dec 9, 2017

rseymorejr said:
If NJ was forced to recognize that VA NR permit there shouldn't be an issue

Agree somewhat, IF NR becomes law. I was speaking to our current world.

Even if NR become law, it only covers handguns. Let’s say you are going hunting in Maine, get pulled over on the NJ turnpike. Statie sees you have a CCW permit somewhere and decides to run you through the ringer with your .30-06 in the trunk. You are swimming in the same can of shit as you are now, FOPA be damned. Let you and your lawyer sort that out. If by some miracle this passes, expect the Gulags to double down on their long gun transport laws and everything else.

If they can validate a permit by number in NLETS, fine. But to see every permit someone has by name, no thanks.

FrankOceanXray · Dec 10, 2017

rbird7282 said:
Just more proof Dems are full of sh*t. They don't seem to care about doing anything about illegal Social Security cards, licenses, or any number of other things yet they bring up the possibility of illegal CCW permits and it's "OMG the sky is falling"
F them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And here is the beauty. Let them cry about it, plea their case, shout from the roof tops... then use the very same arguments about other illegal things like immigration or MD's new marijuana cards.

Anti argument against reciprocity:Fake Permits

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