Question for those that wet tumble

trickg · Mar 25, 2021

trickg said:
I'm not worried so much about lead in the dust - you gotta figure that most of the time, unless you're shooting cast lead bullets that lead probably isn't much of a factor. However, the dust, which contains all manner of other things, probably isn't good for you.

After some quick Google-fu, I've come to learn that this is incorrect - due to compounds in the primers, tumbling dust DOES contain lead - more to be aware of, and I suppose more of a reason to look toward wet tumbling?

454shooter · Mar 25, 2021

I used to dry tumble brass....after going to the wet method I will NEVER go dry again. No dust or mess. Brass looks like brand new.

My tumbler of choice:
https://stainlesstumblingmedia.com/extreme-tumblers-rebel-17.html

Stainless Steel Tumbling Media Pins - 0.047" Diameter (these pins are slightly larger diameter...no issues with pins stuck in flash holes):
https://shop.guntap.com/stainless-steel-tumbling-pins-media-0-255-x-0-047/

Media Magnet (not absolutely necessary, but makes life way easier):
https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/ca...dia/media-transfer-magnet/909271.html#start=1

Sifter:
https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/ca...-ez-rotary-sifter-kit-with-bucket/507565.html

Cleaning Pods:
https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/ca...lean-brass-cleaning-packs/110040.html#start=1

Most of these items can be sourced from the giant online retailer if you wish.

PowPow · Mar 26, 2021

As long as you pour your dry-tumbled brass and media into the media separator OUTSIDE and place yourself upwind from it while turning the crank, the dust is probably not a worry.

I've gotten into a pattern of wet tumbling every 3-4 reloads of my pistol brass. I haven't been wet tumbling my rifle brass, though I'm thinking that I might see what it does without the pins thanks to this thread.

guzma393 · Mar 26, 2021

I found out an interesting bit about wet tumbling. Turns out you can re-use the cleaning solution from previous washes, granted that was not washing cases caked in mud/sand.

I been fiddling with using a higher concentration of soap/citric acid mix and tumbling only half capacity of what the jug can fit. 30-40 minutes of straight tumbling and the cases come out looking really clean, even removing really stubborn case lube that would otherwise give the casing a "smokey" look.

After draining the concentrated cleaning solution, I then give it an extra rinse with clean water to make sure no soapy residue is left in the case. Pic below were 1k 300 blackout cases done without stainless steel pins and reusing old cleaning solution (tumbled 4 batches, 30 minutes per batch tumble)

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Pinecone · Mar 27, 2021

trickg said:
What I don't like about dry tumbling is the dust, especially with my primary media choice - walnut lizard litter. This isn't my #1 pick - I actually prefer crushed corn cob - but I use it because it's cheap and easy to get at the PetSmart that's 5 minutes from the house.

PetSmart has corn cob based bedding also.

JMV · Mar 27, 2021

I use stainless pins and a magnet to collect them after I dump everything into a bucket. I used to dry tumble years ago (20+). I’ll never go back to that mess. If you plan to wet tumble then the extra step of drying isn’t a huge issue. I’ve never baked them in the oven to dry. Just let them hang out for a day or so on an old towel...

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PaFrank · Mar 30, 2021

wet vs dry tumbling

Speedluvn said:
I'm curious.
What, if any, benefits does wet tumbling have over using dry media method?

The drying process seems like an extra step?

The answer all depends on how Anal you are. Let look at a few facts. Dry tumbling media is impregnated with an abrasive polishing compound. you know, that red stuff that you wipe off the cases after you take them out of the tumbler. You obviously cannot wipe that "red stuff" out of the inside of the case, so most people just clean the outside and load em up. Well do you know what that red stuff is? Jewelers rouge. Know what Jewelers rouge is? RUST. so dry tumble and you are loading up your ammo with a fine coating of rust inside the cases. What effect this has on performance or storage or the long term effects it may have on your firearm, I have no idea, and have not seen any studies around it. But it is something to consider.

For me, I have 2 vibratory tumblers for dry tumbling and and a Thumlers model B i use for wet tumbling. I only wet tumble rifle cases where my objective is accuracy. And for Wet tumbling I use nothing more than a cup of water, a pint of steel BB's and one drop of dawn dish soap.

Pinecone · Mar 30, 2021

PaFrank said:
The answer all depends on how Anal you are. Let look at a few facts. Dry tumbling media is impregnated with an abrasive polishing compound. you know, that red stuff that you wipe off the cases after you take them out of the tumbler. You obviously cannot wipe that "red stuff" out of the inside of the case, so most people just clean the outside and load em up. Well do you know what that red stuff is? Jewelers rouge. Know what Jewelers rouge is? RUST. so dry tumble and you are loading up your ammo with a fine coating of rust inside the cases. What effect this has on performance or storage or the long term effects it may have on your firearm, I have no idea, and have not seen any studies around it. But it is something to consider.

I don't use rouge in mine. There is nothing to wipe off the cases, inside or out.

trickg · Mar 30, 2021

Pinecone said:
PetSmart has corn cob based bedding also.

Really? I need to give that a closer look - I haven't looked in a while, and the last time I was there I got the lizard litter.

I found an interesting solution to keeping the dust manageable with the lizard litter though. Some have suggested the used dryer sheets, and I'd done that in the past, but I also read that you can add some a little drizzle of mineral spirits. The last couple of times I've tumbled I've had almost no dust at all - between the mineral spirits and the pieces of dryer sheets, it really cut down on the amount of dust I was getting.

I bet it works even better with corn cob.

trickg · Mar 30, 2021

PaFrank said:
The answer all depends on how Anal you are. Let look at a few facts. Dry tumbling media is impregnated with an abrasive polishing compound. you know, that red stuff that you wipe off the cases after you take them out of the tumbler. You obviously cannot wipe that "red stuff" out of the inside of the case, so most people just clean the outside and load em up. Well do you know what that red stuff is? Jewelers rouge. Know what Jewelers rouge is? RUST. so dry tumble and you are loading up your ammo with a fine coating of rust inside the cases. What effect this has on performance or storage or the long term effects it may have on your firearm, I have no idea, and have not seen any studies around it. But it is something to consider.

I guess it depends on what you're using for dry media. A person "can" buy pre-impregnated dry media, but most don't. Most of us are too damned cheap to pay for it. It's why I use lizard litter I get at PetSmart. I'm still on the fence whether I think Nu Finish is as good as Flitz Media Additive.

I remember when I was a little little kid and my Dad had a red Thumler's tumbler. I remember him using red walnut media. Then he bought a Dillon reloader, and ended up getting the big Dillon vibratory tumbler - he used corn cob media, and I remember him being so impressed by how fast it was compared to the slow, steady Thumler. I doubt if he ever used walnut media again after that.

I doubt if that teeny tiny amount of finely ground iron oxide makes a difference worth a hill of beans though. You have to figure that the little bit that might creep out of the case into the barrel of your gun is going to be blown back out with each subsequent round, and when you clean the gun to remove the fouling, then run the oil patch through as a last step, it negates any kind of potential issue down to about nil.

That's my take anyway.

Pinecone · Mar 31, 2021

I would be willing to bet, there is more wear damage from over cleaning that you would ever see with that tiny bit of rouge.

Many people shoot 10 of thousands of rounds in pistols without issues.

And rifle barrels "wear out" from throat erosion, not overall barrel wear.

trickg · Mar 31, 2021

Pinecone said:
I would be willing to bet, there is more wear damage from over cleaning that you would ever see with that tiny bit of rouge.

I was cleaning some guns last night and was thinking about the difference in what I was doing vs how we were taught to clean our weapons in Basic Training. Guys were completely misusing the cleaning supplies, and the goal was to clean your weapon so clean there wasn't anything coming off on a clean patch - nothing. No dust, no oil - nada. It left you with a bone dry rifle, and the trainees were going to great lengths to get them that way.

Most of the time I'm not going for perfection when I clean. I clean until there's no visible residue, and most of the time I'm using bore snakes these days unless I've got some heavy fouling that requires a real brush. When I'm done, they are functionally clean and lubricated.

PowPow · Mar 31, 2021

trickg said:
I was cleaning some guns last night and was thinking about the difference in what I was doing vs how we were taught to clean our weapons in Basic Training. Guys were completely misusing the cleaning supplies, and the goal was to clean your weapon so clean there wasn't anything coming off on a clean patch - nothing. No dust, no oil - nada. It left you with a bone dry rifle, and the trainees were going to great lengths to get them that way.

Most of the time I'm not going for perfection when I clean. I clean until there's no visible residue, and most of the time I'm using bore snakes these days unless I've got some heavy fouling that requires a real brush. When I'm done, they are functionally clean and lubricated.

I don't have the time, patience, or desire to achieve a completely unmarked patch. That juice is just not worth the squeeze to me.

bratgirllcp · Mar 31, 2021

Sorry guys I saw the wording of this thread hmmmmmm wet tumbling tsk tsk tsk now I'm in the corner

trickg · Mar 31, 2021

PowPow said:
I don't have the time, patience, or desire to achieve a completely unmarked patch. That juice is just not worth the squeeze to me.

I think that if I was going to do long-term storage on a gun that I didn't think I'd be using for quite some time, then maybe I'd really dig in and get everything, then oil where appropriate.

For anything I'm going to use? Just not worth it IMO. The gun will be fouled after the very first shot, worse depending on the ammo/powder.

Getting back to the subject of wet tumbling, I think that the solution for dealing with dust that I'm currently using - dryer sheets and a bit of mineral spirits, is working well enough that it quelled the little bit of interest I was starting to develop in wet tumbling.

guzma393 · Mar 31, 2021

trickg said:
I think that if I was going to do long-term storage on a gun that I didn't think I'd be using for quite some time, then maybe I'd really dig in and get everything, then oil where appropriate.

For anything I'm going to use? Just not worth it IMO. The gun will be fouled after the very first shot, worse depending on the ammo/powder.

Getting back to the subject of wet tumbling, I think that the solution for dealing with dust that I'm currently using - dryer sheets and a bit of mineral spirits, is working well enough that it quelled the little bit of interest I was starting to develop in wet tumbling.

Have you ever dry tumbled finished reloads? One big advantage of dry tumbling is the fact that you can re-tumble reloads to get rid of the grime and oils from gunked up equipment, case lube, and fingers. You obviously cannot do this with wet tumbling. I was thinking of doing this if I was really anal on how my reloads look at the end, especially for long term storage.

trickg · Mar 31, 2021

guzma393 said:
Have you ever dry tumbled finished reloads? One big advantage of dry tumbling is the fact that you can re-tumble reloads to get rid of the grime and oils from gunked up equipment, case lube, and fingers. You obviously cannot do this with wet tumbling. I was thinking of doing this if I was really anal on how my reloads look at the end, especially for long term storage.

I have - in fact, I'm going to dump 100 357s I loaded a couple of days ago into the tumbler for a quick jaunt today because they have started to tarnish really quickly - I didn't think I'd handled them that much, but apparently I did. I'll do it for the same reason you stated - I put these in boxes, and I'm not sure when I'll actually get around to shooting them - sooner rather than later I hope though.

I need to try them out because they are the first 357 I've loaded, and I want to see how this load - 15.5 gr 2400 under 125 gr Montana Gold JHP - performs. If I like them, I've got 100 more cases ready to go for the next batch.

Scrounger · Mar 31, 2021

guzma393 said:
Have you ever dry tumbled finished reloads? One big advantage of dry tumbling is the fact that you can re-tumble reloads to get rid of the grime and oils from gunked up equipment, case lube, and fingers. You obviously cannot do this with wet tumbling. I was thinking of doing this if I was really anal on how my reloads look at the end, especially for long term storage.

I have tumbled loaded rounds for years, to remove lube. I have certain media that is used for cleaning. I have a different media that is contaminated with lube that is used only for already loaded stuff.

guzma393 · Mar 31, 2021

trickg said:
I have - in fact, I'm going to dump 100 357s I loaded a couple of days ago into the tumbler for a quick jaunt today because they have started to tarnish really quickly - I didn't think I'd handled them that much, but apparently I did. I'll do it for the same reason you stated - I put these in boxes, and I'm not sure when I'll actually get around to shooting them - sooner rather than later I hope though.

I need to try them out because they are the first 357 I've loaded, and I want to see how this load - 15.5 gr 2400 under 125 gr Montana Gold JHP - performs. If I like them, I've got 100 more cases ready to go for the next batch.

Scrounger said:
I have tumbled loaded rounds for years, to remove lube. I have certain media that is used for cleaning. I have a different media that is contaminated with lube that is used only for already loaded stuff.

Sounds like I need a dry tumbler to make my reloads nice and shiny. Have you guys tried dry tumbling reloads that contain powder coated cast bullets? I'm a bit worried it might rub off during tumbling. I assume plated and FMJ bullets are fine.

trickg · Mar 31, 2021

guzma393 said:
Sounds like I need a dry tumbler to make my reloads nice and shiny. Have you guys tried dry tumbling reloads that contain powder coated cast bullets? I'm a bit worried it might rub off during tumbling. I assume plated and FMJ bullets are fine.

Other than the dust, I've never seen a reason to wet tumble - it just doesn't get things functionally any cleaner than dry. Maybe if I was a competition bench rest shooter, I'd want to take the case back down to its basest basic format - as clean as a whistle inside and out - but for what I do, the vibratory tumbler is where it's at for me. I don't have to worry about pins, I don't have to worry about drying, and I don't have to worry about red rot - that's something else that can happen with wet tumbling.

Red rot is basically the de-zincification of brass where the zinc gets leached out due to a chemical reaction, leaving just the copper behind. What's left behind is very weak and brittle. Red rot, if it gets bad, is the kiss of death for brass musical instruments. I've seen situations on reloading groups where someone wound up with a whole bunch of ruined brass because of that - I've never seen that with dry tumbling.

Question for those that wet tumble

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