Rejected by Dealer to Ship Mags Out of State

armed_economist · Dec 6, 2017

Found an online dealer with a good price on a gun I'm interested in, but website shows "product is illegal in your area" when putting in my zip code, because of magazine capacity over 10. Called their customer service, was told firmly that they won't ship the magazines to a separate address in Virginia for extra fee, and ship the rest of the package including the gun to my local FFL. I told them it's perfectly legal, they replied they just don't want to take on any legal risk of a Maryland buyer ending up with a high capacity magazine in any way because of them. Before I could say anything else, "sorry our policy says no, have a good day".

Are most online dealers this risk averse? Any way they can be convinced of what the law actually says what can and can't be done?

By the way, went into FFL yesterday and was told that Maryland FFLs can receive high capacity magazines from online orders, but can't ship to an out of state address for the buyer to pick up. Some dealers were doing this before Maryland AG sent out letters warning shops to stop this practice. Didn't know this before.

Mark75H · Dec 6, 2017

More jokes from the ill-informed. MD FFL's and MANUFACTURERS CAN ship mags out of state any time they wish; the issue would only be the Maryland buyer. The very simple solution is for the mags to be sent to another person out of state. His honor the high sheriff of nothingham, I mean the AG, has issue with MD buyers purchasing the mags, as it is his opinion that the MD buyers purchase the mags in MD.

YOUR problem remains convincing a chickenlittle FFL he is not breaking the law. Their policy can be their policy. Find an FFL who understands and is not afraid.

armed_economist · Dec 6, 2017

Mark75H said:
More jokes from the ill-informed. MD FFL's and MANUFACTURERS CAN ship mags out of state any time they wish; the issue would only be the Maryland buyer. The very simple solution is for the mags to be sent to another person out of state. His honor the high sheriff of nothingham, I mean the AG, has issue with MD buyers purchasing the mags, as it is his opinion that the MD buyers purchase the mags in MD.

YOUR problem remains convincing a chickenlittle FFL he is not breaking the law. Their policy can be their policy. Find an FFL who understands and is not afraid.

So are we just out of solutions, except buy from the dealer with the lowest price that is willing to ship to an out of state address?

j.smooth4 · Dec 6, 2017

Typically you’ll get that especially if they don’t border md. Is this a smaller company? When I usually order firearms with over 10 rds I just ask to ship without the mags.

Don’t take it personally a lot of places are too lazy or don’t find it worth the trouble to not only learn but keep up with gun laws in nanny states like ours.

j.smooth4 · Dec 6, 2017

dbl Post

Bob A · Dec 6, 2017

If you're unlucky enough to live in MoCo or Annapolis, there are companies who will refuse to ship ammunition to you, even though the local laws were preempted long ago by the state.

Even when presented with legal information from NRA-ILA, citing the appropriate sections of the law, their refusal stands. It's more than a little annoying.

The blame rest on the shoulders of the General Assembly, and the know-nothing electorate who put them in office, and keep them there.

Bob A · Dec 6, 2017

armed_economist said:
So are we just out of solutions, except buy from the dealer with the lowest price that is willing to ship to an out of state address?

Yes. Buy from those who are willing to sell.

Long-term solutions involve working toward ridding Maryland of their Progressive supermajority, a process which exceeds the patience and attention-span of most complainers.

armed_economist · Dec 6, 2017

j.smooth4 said:
Typically you’ll get that especially if they don’t border md. Is this a smaller company? When I usually order firearms with over 10 rds I just ask to ship without the mags.

Don’t take it personally a lot of places are too lazy or don’t find it worth the trouble to not only learn but keep up with gun laws in nanny states like ours.

The dealer is iammo.com, I don't know much about them (new to guns so I have only heard of the major national dealer names). That's what they said, they can ship without mags but won't substitute full mags with 10-round mags. If they ship without the mags, there is no price reduction, that's why I want to find a way to get the mags, even for extra shipping cost (usually comes out cheaper than buying 2 or 3 full size mags out of state).

hit3961 · Dec 6, 2017

armed_economist said:
Found an online dealer with a good price on a gun I'm interested in, but website shows "product is illegal in your area" when putting in my zip code, because of magazine capacity over 10. Called their customer service, was told firmly that they won't ship the magazines to a separate address in Virginia for extra fee, and ship the rest of the package including the gun to my local FFL. I told them it's perfectly legal, they replied they just don't want to take on any legal risk of a Maryland buyer ending up with a high capacity magazine in any way because of them. Before I could say anything else, "sorry our policy says no, have a good day".

Are most online dealers this risk averse? Any way they can be convinced of what the law actually says what can and can't be done?

By the way, went into FFL yesterday and was told that Maryland FFLs can receive high capacity magazines from online orders, but can't ship to an out of state address for the buyer to pick up. Some dealers were doing this before Maryland AG sent out letters warning shops to stop this practice. Didn't know this before.

Get magazine elsewhere, get them to drop ship to a fed ex store thats near your hotel while your on a business trip.

d33rhunt3r · Dec 6, 2017

What I find somewhat "amusing" is the online dealers sometimes have this problem, but HK has no problem shipping mags to out of state address. They did that for the buy a gun get 4 mags deal they were running in the fall. I figured the manufacturers would have more of an issue then the FFL

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

armed_economist · Dec 6, 2017

d33rhunt3r said:
What I find somewhat "amusing" is the online dealers sometimes have this problem, but HK has no problem shipping mags to out of state address. They did that for the buy a gun get 4 mags deal they were running in the fall. I figured the manufacturers would have more of an issue then the FFL

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

HK as Heckler and Koch? I didn't know you can buy guns directly from the manufacturer's website, do they sell just like any dealer's online stores and ship products to a local FFL?

babalou · Dec 6, 2017

huh?

yeah, they ship to a local FFL. what is being said is that HK will take the mags out and ship to a relative out of state or whatever and still ship the mag-less firearm to the FFL for proper transfer to the buyer.

I have been lucky to have a couple FFLs who received the mags with the firearm and were willing to ship out of state for me. I did have to pay for the shipping.

d33rhunt3r · Dec 6, 2017

armed_economist said:
HK as Heckler and Koch? I didn't know you can buy guns directly from the manufacturer's website, do they sell just like any dealer's online stores and ship products to a local FFL?

Not directly from the manufacturer, I meant from FFL. HK had a deal going where you buy certain models and they send you 4 mags for free. To get the mags you had to contact HK with your proof of purchase, and they would agree to sending the mags to out of state address

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Squaregrouper · Dec 6, 2017

What is the firearm in question? If it is relatively common, it is usually less expensive to buy locally. Online prices are + shipping and + MD FFL transfer fees. You're typically looking around $75-$90 on top of the online price to put the pistol in your hand.

I will mention the following because you stated you are new to the game...
1- Is the pistol on Marylandistan's "approved" handgun roster?
2- Make sure you have a local FFL willing to do the transfer before placing an online order. If it is a common pistol, like a Glock 19, most FFL's already have a few in their case. You will often find it harder finding an FFL to transfer something already sitting on their shelf.
3- Another thing to consider is going to a local FFL and ask them to order said pistol and you will pay in advance. You can often get better deals this way because they aren't using their own funds nor are they taking up their retail shelf space. Obviously, this won't apply to something already stocked.
4- Your local FFL will always treat you better face to face rather than via a phone call, as they know you're a serious buyer.

John from MD · Dec 6, 2017

Tanners in PA will pull mags. They sell on gunbroker and have excellent prices. I got the lowest price on my Kel Tec Sub 2000 from them.

davsco · Dec 6, 2017

can't blame companies for not wanting to invest time and effort to keep up with nuances and changes in MD (and other similar anti-gun states) laws. that is probably one of the (intended) consequences of all the bureaucratic antigun efforts by your MD government.

anyone that needs extra mags, hit the chantilly gun show the end of this month.

armed_economist · Dec 6, 2017

squaregrouper said:
What is the firearm in question? If it is relatively common, it is usually less expensive to buy locally. Online prices are + shipping and + MD FFL transfer fees. You're typically looking around $75-$90 on top of the online price to put the pistol in your hand.

I will mention the following because you stated you are new to the game...
1- Is the pistol on Marylandistan's "approved" handgun roster?
2- Make sure you have a local FFL willing to do the transfer before placing an online order. If it is a common pistol, like a Glock 19, most FFL's already have a few in their case. You will often find it harder finding an FFL to transfer something already sitting on their shelf.
3- Another thing to consider is going to a local FFL and ask them to order said pistol and you will pay in advance. You can often get better deals this way because they aren't using their own funds nor are they taking up their retail shelf space. Obviously, this won't apply to something already stocked.
4- Your local FFL will always treat you better face to face rather than via a phone call, as they know you're a serious buyer.

Thank you for the inquiry. I'm interested in two guns as my first purchase: Beretta APX and M&P 2.0 FDE 5 inch barrel, perhaps APX as my first buy. Both are 17 rounders, and approved for sale in MD.

For both guns, I find dealers on gunbroker and gun.deals selling for cheaper than my local FFL. After accounting for shipping and transfer fee (if buy online), and sales tax (if buy local), the difference is still more than negligible. If not for that, I would have preferred to support local business.

My local FFL is willing to do transfers on guns they have in stock, and according to older posts I see here, they don't give grief to online buyers unlike some other shops. I went in the shop yesterday, the clerks do seem friendly, helpful and patient. Their transfer fee is $50.

I wanted to ask them if they could come close to the price I found online, but I didn't want to appear rude as a first time visitor and just ask if they price match. How should I ask this, if it's OK to ask?

I didn't know you can pay upfront to get a better deal. I would be very happy to pay in full cash and wait for them to place orders, as long as the total price is comparable to what I can get online.

If I buy online, besides the sale price and shipping (usually there is no tax as dealers of not in MD), there is not other hidden cost, right?

armed_economist · Dec 6, 2017

davsco said:
can't blame companies for not wanting to invest time and effort to keep up with nuances and changes in MD (and other similar anti-gun states) laws. that is probably one of the (intended) consequences of all the bureaucratic antigun efforts by your MD government.

anyone that needs extra mags, hit the chantilly gun show the end of this month.

Do they sell for MSRP at gun shows or below that?

The APX magazine is $35 and some dealers are giving 3 of them, so not getting the mags while paying full price for the gun is quite a substantial loss, and I just don't want the 10 round mags.

lazarus · Dec 6, 2017

Mark75H said:
More jokes from the ill-informed. MD FFL's and MANUFACTURERS CAN ship mags out of state any time they wish; the issue would only be the Maryland buyer. The very simple solution is for the mags to be sent to another person out of state. His honor the high sheriff of nothingham, I mean the AG, has issue with MD buyers purchasing the mags, as it is his opinion that the MD buyers purchase the mags in MD.

YOUR problem remains convincing a chickenlittle FFL he is not breaking the law. Their policy can be their policy. Find an FFL who understands and is not afraid.

In the case of the warning letter from the AG to FFLs about shipping those mags out of state, they are correct. That probably does fall afoul of FSA2013. As they are within Maryland sending them to a location out of MD for you to pick up would be transferring them even if you aren’t picking them up in the state.

As for the seller of the firearm not willing to ship the magazines separately and out of state, that sucks and no there should be zero Frosh and his goons could do. But I can’t blame an FFL for not doing it, even if I don’t like it.

lazarus · Dec 6, 2017

armed_economist said:
Thank you for the inquiry. I'm interested in two guns as my first purchase: Beretta APX and M&P 2.0 FDE 5 inch barrel, perhaps APX as my first buy. Both are 17 rounders, and approved for sale in MD.

For both guns, I find dealers on gunbroker and gun.deals selling for cheaper than my local FFL. After accounting for shipping and transfer fee (if buy online), and sales tax (if buy local), the difference is still more than negligible. If not for that, I would have preferred to support local business.

My local FFL is willing to do transfers on guns they have in stock, and according to older posts I see here, they don't give grief to online buyers unlike some other shops. I went in the shop yesterday, the clerks do seem friendly, helpful and patient. Their transfer fee is $50.

I wanted to ask them if they could come close to the price I found online, but I didn't want to appear rude as a first time visitor and just ask if they price match. How should I ask this, if it's OK to ask?

I didn't know you can pay upfront to get a better deal. I would be very happy to pay in full cash and wait for them to place orders, as long as the total price is comparable to what I can get online.

If I buy online, besides the sale price and shipping (usually there is no tax as dealers of not in MD), there is not other hidden cost, right?

From the seller, no. From the transferring FFL, their is whatever their transfer fee is. Plus MDSP charge $10 for the 77r background check. Most FFLs make you pay it.

So you’d be looking at $60 to transfer it in that case. If you are interested in more than 1, keep in mind MD limits you to 1 regulated firearm (a handgun or lower receiver) purchase per 30 days or 2 in 60 days (but that is only supposed to be for special sales prices, estate sales and a couple of other exceptions).

If you get a designated collectors license (just google search MD firearm designated collectors license to get the form and info) you have no limits to how many and how often you can buy regulated firearms (still 7 day waiting period). DC letter is free, just need a notary to stamp it and then mail it in.

Also a perk of purchasing more than one at once if you can afford it, is some FFLs might cut you a discount if you are buying more than 1 gun from them at a time. Almost all are going to cut you a discount on the transfer fees. And the MSP background check fee for the 77r is per 77r. Doesn’t matter if there is 1 or 20 firearms on there.

Example the FFL I usually use charges $40 for long gun transfers and $50 for regulated firearms. He cut me a discount of $80 for two lower receivers. So with the single background check fee, that saved $30 doing two at once. Probably if I had done 3 I could have talked him in to maybe $100 to do all 3.

Rejected by Dealer to Ship Mags Out of State

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