Definition of "under the influence" for carry

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  • GolfR

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 20, 2016
    1,324
    Columbia MD
    All,

    We all know that the law in MD states that you cannot carry a firearm while under the influence of alcohol with a handgun permit. Does anyone know where it is documented what this statement means under MD law? Does this mean that anything above 0% is under the influence or do you have to be over a certain percentage similar to driving?

    Thanks!
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    If they use the same definition as drunk driving then it would be DUI (Driving Under the Influence) when the driver's BAC is .08% or higher) and DWI (Driving while Impaired) when the driver's BAC is .04% to .08%
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    There is no definition .

    Never mind that hypothetically basing off of motor vehicle standard ( as done by several states) is both wise & transparent. Never mind the practice in other states .

    In Md's statute it is not defined , and in the one case tried for this , he was totally blastered, at multiples of the driving limit .
     

    Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    Not going to get into an argument about the merits of mixing alcohol and firearms, but will point out if the consumption of any alcohol = under the influence then the statute would prohibit any consumption while carrying. It clearly doesn’t. So absent a specific definition under the Public Safety Article the closest analogy is the driving standard.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,409
    Glen Burnie
    You can argue legal limits or not for carry. It doesn't matter if it comes down to a shoot.

    Anyone who carries after/during/while drinking when out in public deserves whatever comes their way if they have a bad shoot.
    If you say you won't shoot if you've been drinking, then don't carry it. Don't leave it out in your vehicle even.
    If you have a good shoot, then you deserve the overwhelming scrutiny and prosecution pressure that may come your way if it happens.
    I won't even sit at a bar and just drink tea or water when carrying. The possible perception (in hindsight/investigation) could possibly muck my legal defense up.

    If I get into one(anywhere), I am probably going to immediately request a blood draw in order to eliminate ANY perception right from the beginning. The possibility of getting into a sticky wicket(dui, etc...) by simply boozing and carrying is greater than you needing to use a gun for a self defense shoot.

    But there will always be people who would argue a pro and talking "legality" to death mincing down BAC limits for "Under the influence".

    I am not paranoid of much, this is one thing that I am. Because it has REAL implications.

    It's your shoot. Do it the way you like.
     

    hit3961

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 5, 2017
    369
    Not going to get into an argument about the merits of mixing alcohol and firearms, but will point out if the consumption of any alcohol = under the influence then the statute would prohibit any consumption while carrying. It clearly doesn’t. So absent a specific definition under the Public Safety Article the closest analogy is the driving standard.

    It really comes down to civil liability, If subject (A) uses self defene of subject (b) who had a knife. And subject (b) has witnesses that suspect (A) Was drinking.

    I think subject (b) would win a lawsuit or his
    Poor family would .
     

    hit3961

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 5, 2017
    369
    You can argue legal limits or not for carry. It doesn't matter if it comes down to a shoot.

    Anyone who carries after/during/while drinking when out in public deserves whatever comes their way if they have a bad shoot.
    If you say you won't shoot if you've been drinking, then don't carry it. Don't leave it out in your vehicle even.
    If you have a good shoot, then you deserve the overwhelming scrutiny and prosecution pressure that may come your way if it happens.
    I won't even sit at a bar and just drink tea or water when carrying. The possible perception (in hindsight/investigation) could possibly muck my legal defense up.

    If I get into one(anywhere), I am probably going to immediately request a blood draw in order to eliminate ANY perception right from the beginning. The possibility of getting into a sticky wicket(dui, etc...) by simply boozing and carrying is greater than you needing to use a gun for a self defense shoot.

    But there will always be people who would argue a pro and talking "legality" to death mincing down BAC limits for "Under the influence".

    I am not paranoid of much, this is one thing that I am. Because it has REAL implications.

    It's your shoot. Do it the way you like.
    Public Intoxication:
    1. You appear or seem to be;
    2. Drunk or intoxicated; and
    3. You are in public.

    I'll fine one to charge them with !!!
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,689
    Like bona fide collector, it is without legal definition

    Or "good and substantial." Ambiguity in legislation is a specialty of Maryland legislators. It gives the legal community a lot of elbow room. Rent a favored lawyer, get a favorable outcome.
     

    GolfR

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 20, 2016
    1,324
    Columbia MD
    Never mix guns and booze that takes care of everything. Easy!

    I completely agree with those who have posted about mixing alcohol and carrying. Perhaps I should lay out a scenario that sparked this question...

    If I carry my gun all day walking around town with friends (we all know we need it in downtown Baltimore) and then catch dinner and want to have a beer, what do I do with my gun? Assume, I rode with friends.

    A) Keep carrying it (no way going to hit the illegal driving limit)
    B) Leave it in the center console loaded when at dinner and on the way home
    C) Unload the gun in the car before dinner, leave the gun in a holster in the trunk with the ammo separated



    Here is how I look at it:
    A) The uncertainty of the law is concerning, even if it were something stupid like bending over and someone freaking out about having a gun.
    B) Hate leaving my gun in a car and am I still outside the law on the ride home because I'm carrying a loaded handgun with very very low alcohol in my blood?
    C) Hate leaving my gun in a car. Am I still up shit creek same as B since I still have a handgun and I'm not going to/from a range?

    Yeah yeah yeah...I know the easy answer is "don't drink" but help me out with folks thoughts on the situation.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    The restrictions in 4-203 do not apply to W&C permit holders.

    I vote for (c) unloading and locking in the trunk.

    You can then enjoy a drink and no question will arise about your alcohol consumption while transporting rather than carrying. Leave the gun in the trunk for the ride home.

    IANAL.
     

    Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    Everyone has to decide for themselves. The OP’s question is what is the precise standard - which doesn’t exist. There is no bright line. Remember our legiscritters have permits and consume. For many, if they are willing to drink a beer and get behind the wheel to drive home, knowing they are not under the influence but still subject to a lawsuit if they get into an accident, they may not see any difference to the question about carrying and alcohol.

    Again, I am not advocating consumption and carrying, and doing so certainly complicates issues. But the law clearly provides for everyone to make a personal choice and that was the original question.

    If someone carrying stops after work and has a beer with a client in Baltimore before heading home I won’t be the one to tell him he can’t. Having a beer is legal, being in Baltimore is legal, and carrying not “under the influence” is legal. Regardless, being in Baltimore by itself can be deadly.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,409
    Glen Burnie
    I completely agree with those who have posted about mixing alcohol and carrying. Perhaps I should lay out a scenario that sparked this question...

    If I carry my gun all day walking around town with friends (we all know we need it in downtown Baltimore) and then catch dinner and want to have a beer, what do I do with my gun? Assume, I rode with friends.

    A) Keep carrying it (no way going to hit the illegal driving limit)
    B) Leave it in the center console loaded when at dinner and on the way home
    C) Unload the gun in the car before dinner, leave the gun in a holster in the trunk with the ammo separated



    Here is how I look at it:
    A) The uncertainty of the law is concerning, even if it were something stupid like bending over and someone freaking out about having a gun.
    B) Hate leaving my gun in a car and am I still outside the law on the ride home because I'm carrying a loaded handgun with very very low alcohol in my blood?
    C) Hate leaving my gun in a car. Am I still up shit creek same as B since I still have a handgun and I'm not going to/from a range?

    Yeah yeah yeah...I know the easy answer is "don't drink" but help me out with folks thoughts on the situation.
    We are trying to help you out. Don't drink with the blaster at all. How many years have you not been carrying? You can always drink. You cannot always carry if you get in a sticky wicket and it fcks you.
    If you can't restrain an occasional episode "with the boys", then maybe carrying really isn't for you.
     

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