A Question Of Scopes

outrider58 · Apr 10, 2016

I've always been a scope guy. Whether its a standard cross-hair reticle, bdc, or chevron to even red dot, almost all my long guns carry some kind of glass on them.

You hear a lot about first focal plane vs. second focal plane scopes. While I kind of know the difference between those two types, I could really use some help clarifying their physical differences as well as to their preferred uses. Where one might 'outshine' the other as well as their short comings.

Anyone care to take this on?

Dave Greenberg · Apr 10, 2016

outrider58 said:
I've always been a scope guy. Whether its a standard cross-hair reticle, bdc, or chevron to even red dot, almost all my long guns carry some kind of glass on them.

You hear a lot about first focal plane vs. second focal plane scopes. While I kind of know the difference between those two types, I could really use some help clarifying their physical differences as well as to their preferred uses. Where one might 'outshine' the other as well as their short comings.

Anyone care to take this on?

FFP the reticle will change/increase in size when you increase magnification where as SECOND stays the the same regardless of the magnification. FFP is like easy mode IMO. Whatever your zero is in 1x, it's the same in 4x. On a second focal plane the zero will change when you increase magnification so you have different holdovers to remember. FFP is very popular with the 3 gun crowd and apparently hunting (Although I can't speak on it because I don't hunt)

mopar92 · Apr 10, 2016

First focal plane maintains the same reticle size through all magnification levels. Best use is using the reticle to measure things for unknown distance shooting so you can use mental math to determine elevation and windage corrections. Almost like using a ruler while you're shooting, its useful in precision shooting and long range shooting.
Second focal plane changes with magnification levels so the reticle doesn't interfere with the sight picture as much. Useful for hunting, self defense, and any times you need to maintain a sight picture and ranging isn't as important.

steves1911 · Apr 10, 2016

Ffp is usefull when ranging targets of unknown distance at any magnification. No matter the magnification the subtensions in your reticle stay the same. With a sfp scope your subtensions change with increased magnification so for accurate ranging you need to either use more math to get an accurate range to your target or make sure when ranging you have your magnification set to where the manufacturer states. Usually its max magnification but not always. Also as stated above on a ffp scope your reticle actually grows as you increase magnification. Sometimes this can be a problem with something like a 2-12x your subtenision lines or dots need to be big enough to count on 2x but not so big as cover the entire target once you zoom in to 12x.

antco · Apr 11, 2016

Read this- http://www.primalrights.com/articles/rifle-sighting-systems-part-3-sfp-vs-ffp

Personally, I started with SFP scopes, started to transition to FFP, and ended up going back to SFP, and it was an expensive experiment. SFP for me.

DaemonAssassin · Apr 11, 2016

antco said:
Read this- http://www.primalrights.com/articles/rifle-sighting-systems-part-3-sfp-vs-ffp

Personally, I started with SFP scopes, started to transition to FFP, and ended up going back to SFP, and it was an expensive experiment. SFP for me.

That is a good read, I'm going to have to read the other articles in that series.

outrider58 · Apr 11, 2016

DaemonAssassin said:
That is a good read, I'm going to have to read the other articles in that series.

Same here. It's in my 'Favorites' for further perusal. Thanks antco!

Dave Greenberg · Apr 11, 2016

antco said:
Read this- http://www.primalrights.com/articles/rifle-sighting-systems-part-3-sfp-vs-ffp

Personally, I started with SFP scopes, started to transition to FFP, and ended up going back to SFP, and it was an expensive experiment. SFP for me.

Very good article thanks for this. Pretty much confirms what I had to say about FFP.

erwos · Apr 11, 2016

There's generally not a lot of downside to using FFP when you've got a minimum zoom level of 4x or so. Where strong opinions emerge is when you're talking 1-X scopes. Some people really, really do not like having their reticle turn into a dot at 1x, especially when the illumination is not sun-bright. Personally, I think it's great.

steves1911 · Apr 11, 2016

If your Point of impact changes when you change magnification its not because you have a sfp scope. Its beacuse you either have a defective scope or a cheaply made scope

outrider58 · Apr 11, 2016

steves1911 said:
If your Point of impact changes when you change magnification its not because you have a sfp scope. Its beacuse you either have a defective scope or a cheaply made scope

I (would guess) all my scopes are SFP and have never noticed impact discrepancies, but to be truthful, I sight my hunting guns at full power and unless I'm making a long shot, I'm usually powered at 5-7x. I usually kill what I shoot at. Since deer don't wear bull's eyes, no way to tell any impact shift.

Overboost44 · Apr 12, 2016

Take a look at this video as well. It is a great video about Mil dot scopes, but he explains FFP v SFP scopes at the 7:30 mark.

An here is a quick one from Vortex.

Dave Greenberg · Apr 12, 2016

outrider58 said:
I (would guess) all my scopes are SFP and have never noticed impact discrepancies, but to be truthful, I sight my hunting guns at full power and unless I'm making a long shot, I'm usually powered at 5-7x. I usually kill what I shoot at. Since deer don't wear bull's eyes, no way to tell any impact shift.

I wasn't really talking about point of impact although I believe I could have worded it better. I was referring to holdovers changing with changes in magnification.

outrider58 · Apr 12, 2016

Dave Greenberg said:
I wasn't really talking about point of impact although I believe I could have worded it better. I was referring to holdovers changing with changes in magnification.

Gotchya.

d33rhunt3r · Apr 12, 2016

I have an FFP Bushnell on my AR, and I actually don't like it much. It's a nice scope except it's my first time using FFP. All of my other scopes that I've ever used in 20ish years of shooting have been SFP. It might just be my eyes but to me when the reticle gets smaller in FFP, it gets blurry and gets harder to distinguish the markings.

erwos · Apr 12, 2016

You need to turn on illumination with the Bushnell. It will make the reticle much more easy to see. The reality is, the BDC markings aren't really usable below 3.5x or so... just too small.

Dave Greenberg · Apr 13, 2016

d33rhunt3r said:
I have an FFP Bushnell on my AR, and I actually don't like it much. It's a nice scope except it's my first time using FFP. All of my other scopes that I've ever used in 20ish years of shooting have been SFP. It might just be my eyes but to me when the reticle gets smaller in FFP, it gets blurry and gets harder to distinguish the markings.

It's not your eyes I have the same problem just depends on the conditions outside. Most of the reticles aren't daylight bright even on full power(That is unless you are looking at some FFP optics that cost $1000+). Also a problem I have had is if it's daylight and you are looking at a shaded area you will lose that small black reticle if it isn't illuminated.

A Question Of Scopes

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