Brazilian Carbine, Unknown Use

Cruacious · Apr 8, 2018

Well, I got myself an oddball here. I picked up from the Frederick Gun Show some kinda Brazilian Model 1908 carbine. It's got a scrubbed military crest, slightly mismatched bolt (the bolt body is correct), mis-matched barrel, etc. I have confirmed it is chambered in 7x57mm Mauser. It also has some minor stock damage and is quite dirty, but the barrel and action were in good shape so I jumped on it as it was priced low.

Now... the big question is... what is it? It's been suggested on a Facebook collector's group it may be a Police Carbine. I'm personally clueless as the markings are ex-military, it's an arsenal rework of some kind, but it's got the scrubbed crest that indicates likely removal from service. Also, anyone got an idea as to why it has so many nails in it? Kinda curious on that.

Anyone care to pitch in their thoughts? Pictures below.

Threeband · Apr 9, 2018

I see the crest. I don't think it's "scrubbed" or deliberately buffed off. I think it's just worn away from being handled a lot over the years. These things saw a lot of hard use, and South Americans are not so careful with their firearms as are the Swedes.

It is a slick little carbine, isn't it? 7mm is a much nicer round than 8mm, too.

I don't know much about them. It's a carbine version of the M. 08, made by DWM, Berlin. Later, there was an updated M.08/34 which is what I have.

My 08/34 was made in Czechoslovakia, and has a few minor differences. Mine has the recessed area of the stock under the bolt handle and it has a double set of swivel bases, on the side and the bottom, so it can be slung either way.

There was a batch very similar to mine, Czech made, which were purchased by a rebel group planning a coup. The plot failed and the carbines were taken into Government service.

After WWII, production continued at a Brazilian plant at Itajuba, but the caliber was changed to .30-06. Apparently many, maybe most of the older rifles were rebarreled in .30-06.

Here are the threads, with photos, about mine:

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=1670838#post1670838

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=1675674#post1675674

Abulg1972 · Apr 9, 2018

It is a M1908 short rifle and it is rare. The crest is there - it’s just worn. The fact that the S/N does not have a letter suffix means that it was one of the first 10,000 made.

Can you post a picture of the rear sight leaf?

Cruacious · Apr 9, 2018

Here you go Abulg, a picture of the sights:

So, I must ask the obvious question... how much are these worth? I paid into it thinking it was a M1908 that was mismatched and maybe moderately Bubba'ed. I'm asking as I do keep information on all my firearms just in case something happens someone else has what they need to clear my estate.

Abulg1972 · Apr 9, 2018

You should check, but the hand guards on these might not have springs and instead be held in place by the missing screw. You should be able to grab one at Numrich or Liberty Tree for cheap.

On value, I have no idea. They are rarely encountered and most at mix-masters or have replacement barrels. If I had to make a WAG, I’d say $350 +/- $50.

Cruacious · Apr 9, 2018

Thanks for the information. Mine is pretty typical on the Mixmaster part and is clearly a drug through the mud rifle. Still a cool piece of history as it was clearly heavy used, as you said.

Abulg1972 · Apr 9, 2018

Cruacious said:
Still a cool piece of history as it was clearly heavy used, as you said.

Definitely. Not one for the “for sale” pile. There are very few out there. I have a beat to hell Spanish Model 1891 Cavalry carbine. It Is in pretty rough shape but there were only 5,000 made, and less than 20 have been reported in the US. You don’t sell that kind of stuff.

Threeband · Apr 9, 2018

I wonder how many there are like mine, ZB made 08/34 in 7mm.

Cruacious · Apr 9, 2018

Yep. BTW, I'd like to ask: what the heck is with the nails embedded in my stock? Is that some form of repair or was that some soldier messing with the rifle?

Abulg1972 · Apr 10, 2018

Cruacious said:
Yep. BTW, I'd like to ask: what the heck is with the nails embedded in my stock? Is that some form of repair or was that some soldier messing with the rifle?

If I had to guess, I would guess that some soldier used the butt to disassemble the bolt and then someone got creative and decided to fill the holes with nails.

On closer inspection of your rifle, it appears that the receiver was renumbered in Brazil by Fábrica de Itajubá. I say this because the numbers are too big (the cursive looking B should be significantly bigger than the numbers) and the bottom of the circle B proof is gone, indicating that the area was scrubbed at some point. This size and style have been observed on other known arsenal overhauls.

Cruacious · Apr 10, 2018

Abulg1972 said:
If I had to guess, I would guess that some soldier used the butt to disassemble the bolt and then someone got creative and decided to fill the holes with nails.

On closer inspection of your rifle, it appears that the receiver was renumbered in Brazil by Fábrica de Itajubá. I say this because the numbers are too big (the cursive looking B should be significantly bigger than the numbers) and the bottom of the circle B proof is gone, indicating that the area was scrubbed at some point. This size and style have been observed on other known arsenal overhauls.

I have another person looking at it and they noticed that the front band is a Gew 98 original band held on by a screw. He is fairly certain the rifle is originally of German make. Other statistics of importance: Barrel length is 21 3/8" roughly and OAL is 42".

Picture of band:

Abulg1972 · Apr 10, 2018

Cruacious said:
I have another person looking at it and they noticed that the front band is a Gew 98 original band held on by a screw. He is fairly certain the rifle is originally of German make. Other statistics of importance: Barrel length is 21 3/8" roughly and OAL is 42".

Picture of band:

That's not a G98 band. That's a standard Mauser band used on lots of models, including the M1908 SR. The receiver was definitely made in Germany - the DWM on the side rail show this. These rifles were commonly worked over in Brazil.

[Edit: the G98 did have that band, but so did other models, including the M1908, the M1933, and the M1935]

Abulg1972 · Apr 10, 2018

Here's your hand guard retention screw.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1038980

chooks9 · Apr 10, 2018

Abulg1972 said:
That's not a G98 band. That's a standard Mauser band used on lots of models, including the M1908 SR. The receiver was definitely made in Germany - the DWM on the side rail show this. These rifles were commonly worked over in Brazil.

[Edit: the G98 did have that band, but so did other models, including the M1908, the M1933, and the M1935]

I used to have an M1908 that was made by DWM. Great rifle. The M1908 did have that exact same band.

I personally think a short rifle Mauser 98 in 7x57 is probably one of the nicest to shoot military rifles ever made.

Cruacious · Apr 10, 2018

chooks9 said:
I used to have an M1908 that was made by DWM. Great rifle. The M1908 did have that exact same band.

I personally think a short rifle Mauser 98 in 7x57 is probably one of the nicest to shoot military rifles ever made.

I'll shoot it first but I'd argue a Husqvarna M38 is the best military rifle to shoot. But that's also because they are Swedes

Brazilian Carbine, Unknown Use

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Cruacious

C&R Farmer

Threeband

The M1 Does My Talking

Abulg1972

Ultimate Member

Cruacious

C&R Farmer

Abulg1972

Ultimate Member

Cruacious

C&R Farmer

Abulg1972

Ultimate Member

Threeband

The M1 Does My Talking

Cruacious

C&R Farmer

Abulg1972

Ultimate Member

Cruacious

C&R Farmer

Abulg1972

Ultimate Member

Abulg1972

Ultimate Member

chooks9

Bear with Arms

Cruacious

C&R Farmer

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Share this page