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Old May 8th, 2019, 11:53 PM #91
swamplynx swamplynx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ack Ack View Post
That one should be ok. The two in "Bigman's" post came down to "AR" in the name.
I don’t even know why you would want the other two, unless SHTF and you’d punch in a thumb hole or kick that triangle off the other stock. Those two things seem silly to handle vs the Thordsen.
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Old May 10th, 2019, 12:22 AM #92
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Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
Did anyone notice the skeletonized stock on that Hi Point carbine in DC is considered a Thumb Hole Stock.

I wonder how big your hand would have to be to actually put your thumb through the stock and still pull the trigger?

it is moot since it has a grip beneath the action, but if it did not and were otherwise compliant I would think you could, if you had the patience, challenge that being defied as a thumbhole stock.
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Old May 13th, 2019, 09:14 AM #93
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Originally Posted by rascal View Post
it is moot since it has a grip beneath the action, but if it did not and were otherwise compliant I would think you could, if you had the patience, challenge that being defied as a thumbhole stock.
The first time I was at MPD FRS they demonstrated the hole being an illegal feature by:

With the muzzle pointing straight down, the hole, with an underhand swing, allows quick rotation by swinging it up to the ready position.

That's MPD's argument against hole in stock that was given to me.
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Old September 27th, 2019, 12:38 AM #94
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So has anyone began a build yet?
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"We do not rise to the levels of our expectations we fall to the level of our training"

"It's easy to obey laws that you agree with but when you protest by breaking laws that you disagree with, that makes you a criminal!"
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Old November 6th, 2019, 12:29 AM #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innevets View Post
The first time I was at MPD FRS they demonstrated the hole being an illegal feature by:

With the muzzle pointing straight down, the hole, with an underhand swing, allows quick rotation by swinging it up to the ready position.

That's MPD's argument against hole in stock that was given to me.
Thumbhole is cited by a number of states as an increased functional attribute and thereby regulated. California law has included restrictions based on thumbhole for 20 years, and NY for about five years.

I'm not defending the restriction, the demonstration you got was idiotic, but they didn't pull it out of thin air, they are copying California's 'beefing up" of the old federal ban language.
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Old November 6th, 2019, 08:56 AM #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
Did anyone notice the skeletonized stock on that Hi Point carbine in DC is considered a Thumb Hole Stock.

I wonder how big your hand would have to be to actually put your thumb through the stock and still pull the trigger?


"Hi-Point Assault Rifle"... that don't sound right to me
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 06:19 PM #97
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So as a DC resident, if I ever wanted to shoot 3 or 2 gun in MD say at Thurmont, I'd need to find/buy an MD compliant rifle that is also DC compliant?

Heavy barrel being the key for MD?
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Originally Posted by Ack Ack View Post
Pretty much true. I suppose you could have several uppers.
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Originally Posted by Kanly View Post
Thx for the info.

I got all caught up in figuring out DC rules and options I didn't even think of MD until this thread.
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Originally Posted by rascal View Post
FOPA is only valid if legal to possess in both start point and destination point.

jeez if you are in DC, use/join in a range in Va. there are a couple of nice issak Waltons in Va, and also some very nice regular indoor ranges close enough
Rascal: I am well aware of what FOPA is and have traveled to quite a few states under it. In fact, I clearly state above that I made a mistake in focusing only on DC law and forgetting that MD had their own peculiar restrictions.

As far writing off MD: I'm not really sure why you care what I choose to spend my time doing but why would I want to self-limit myself as to what states I can go to?

If it takes an extra day or week or month, why would I not build something that offers me the widest range of options?
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 06:38 PM #98
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Originally Posted by Kanly View Post
if someone had a Monsterman grip when it was legal and now it's not legal what does DC do? Confiscate it? Arrest whoever has one? What happens if they change their mind about something else?

I think the Firearms Unit is in a difficult position as another person has mentioned to me but this is what DC has created and there needs to be at least some clarification and standardization of what is legal/acceptable.

I know they have a catchall phrase in the regulations of something like "or whatever else the Chief determines" so there's that to consider, but DC seems to have no problems accepting CA/MD/MA pistols maybe they need to think about that for ARs and AR options.
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1) YOU are responsible for keeping up on laws. And like lots of US jurisdictions there is case law on "constructive possession" so a part that in and if itself that may not be illegal to possess can in other circumstances be "constructive possession" and a crime. For example in places that ban guns with a forward grip you can own a forward grip if you don't own the gun or keep a gun on the same premises, but the same part could be illegal if in the same premises as the gun

2) as far as CA/MD/MA pistol rosters that is a convenience for everyone, including us. It is seen as allowed for in the law a part of the chiefs discretion. do we want to push it so it ends up only California roster?

3) As far as "AR" and AR options, in whose interest is it to force DC council into a position where they are much more likely to simply ban any detachable mag fed semi auto?
Rascal, I really think you are missing the point here. How is one supposed the know the law if in the example given before, the "law" changed in the space of a few days in a conversation between two people? Constructive possession has nothing to do with this example.

2) I was only kicking around some ideas about AR configurations. If you want to think that somehow that turns into DC adopting CA's ridiculous pistol roster well that's your take I guess.

3) I really doubt asking DC to clarify some things will "force" the DC council to ban on any detachable mag fed semi auto. And if somehow that happens, I bet there will be a Heller IV at the supreme court or circuit court.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 06:40 PM #99
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Originally Posted by mooko View Post
Was actually thinking of the modified bolt catch , turning the AR from semi-auto to manual, and the AR Maglock which fixes the magazine. In both cases you get rid off one of the defining features of an AR. But as you noted, these modifications can be easily reversed.
I got some info about this from Lt. Hall and will provide more info later.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 07:59 PM #100
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Success Finally

So DC/Lt. Hall finally decided to answer some of my questions about a custom AR build.

Congrats to whomever it was that got a Thordsen stock AR approved because that was really a key event.

When I started this back in January, it was my goal to see if DC would approve something other than a Thordsen stock AR based on DC's own definition of what constituted what an assault rifle (or is it riffle? ) without getting into the "chief's discretion" part of the law.

After a few meetings with Officer Mills and then various emails with Mills and Lt. Hall they basically ignored me for a few months and I decided not to push it.

I finally started up again with just Lt. Hall and said I want to build a custom AR 15/AR pattern rifle for competition that would have a muzzle brake (no flash hider,) a fixed stock and a non-pistol grip.

DC has now accepted:

1) Fixed Stocks (non-collapsing/non-folding. At least one kind, but the idea has been accepted).

2) Certain "non-pistol grip"/grips that do not "protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.

What I've been told by Lt. Hall is good to go:

Fixed stock:

Two that I asked about: The Ace Doublestar Skeleton stock

and the LuthAR MBA-2 stock

The Ace Skeleton stock is gtg, the LuthAR is not. "They" feel the LuthAR is too close to a thumbhole stock. I think if I had included the cheekpiece in the LuthAR photo it would have been ok.

(these two stocks are what I asked about because they are what my brother had lying around in FL.)

Now there are many, many, many fixed stock variations and I felt it was more important to get at least one approved, get the idea approved, and then later on see what else might be acceptable.

Grip:

There are many kinds of "featureless grips" and I asked about three of them.

1) Finned grips like the Mission First featureless grip.

This is a no go. Wasn't really given a precise reason why but I guess it is because the grip still "protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon."

What are good to go are:

2) Resurgent Arms featureless grip

and

3) Sparrow Dynamics featureless grip

I was also under the impression that you had to have a complete picture of the rifle that you wanted to get which meant that you were pretty much limited to something off the shelf. (I could be wrong here but that's the gist of what I got from talking to Officer Mills.)

I do not believe that to be the case anymore. I did send pictures of the rifle with the two different stocks but in each picture there was no grip. I sent the links above to Lt. Hall to show what grips I wanted to try.

So I think now the possibility is there to say: I'm going to use this lower, this upper, this stock and this grip. Or at least not be limited to a complete off the shelf rifle. I do think they will want a pic of the final completed build.

I did also ask about fixed magazines. The answer I got was "in order to fix the magazine it must be done by a gunsmith and not readily converted back to detachable."

I figured I'd leave that for some other time. But there are fixed magazine options like the Hogue Freedom Fighter mod that may be acceptable.

Anyway, upshot of all this is DC is now not just limited to Thordsen stock AR rifles.

One mistake I did make in my emails was to say AR15 and AR pattern.

I ended up saying I was building a custom competition rifle.
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