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Old December 3rd, 2019, 11:51 AM #31
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Aside from felonies, what about misdemeanors with "potential" sentences of over a year? I read another thread about a guy coming here from CA, and tried to register his guns or get the HCL. Now, the old saying is, a skilled prosecutor could convict a ham sandwich. There was also a book highlighting the way laws are constructed, where we violate so many laws per day. So, if someone were to commit a misdemeanor, and there is the potential for a year or more sentence, and they get probation, are they disqualified from renting handguns at a range too? Would the police look up their names in the book and come after them?
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 12:27 PM #32
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Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post
Repaid debt??? Not hardly.
Until that murderer can bring their victim back to life... or the rapist unrape his victim... or the robber/burglar give the sense of security back to their victims... staying someplace in time out does not repay any debt to society. It merely punished the felon in an attempt to teach them not to do it again. Who ever came up with that repaid debt line... needs to rethink what repayment means.

The renter of a full auto firearm at the range can not be a felon. And AIUI... a shooting range which rents full auto firearms... does so under special ATF rules which allow and heavily restrict the practice. Call the ATF or a full auto range for details.
Road Dawg you must have overlooked where I said murderers, rapists, etc. My way of thinking is that those type of criminals should never be set free back into society to begin with. Since they are, they definitely should never have the option of legally obtaining a firearm. I thought I put that in my post, but I didn’t.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 02:21 PM #33
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Road Dawg you must have overlooked where I said murderers, rapists, etc. My way of thinking is that those type of criminals should never be set free back into society to begin with. Since they are, they definitely should never have the option of legally obtaining a firearm. I thought I put that in my post, but I didn’t.

My comment was directed at the “paid their debt to society” portion. I don’t believe that “time out” (jail/prison) is a paid debt. No criminal has ever paid society back for anything by being put into time out.

The jail time is the punishment for the offense.

Restitution to all victims would be a debt paid.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 02:48 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadDawg View Post

My comment was directed at the “paid their debt to society” portion. I don’t believe that “time out” (jail/prison) is a paid debt. No criminal has ever paid society back for anything by being put into time out.

The jail time is the punishment for the offense.

Restitution to all victims would be a debt paid.
There are plenty of victimless crimes that will get one put on the permanent prohibited person list.

I used to feel that no felon should ever get their voting or firearms rights back, but as the State moves to make more and more relatively minor infractions either felonies or disqualifying misdemeanors, I'm starting to change my tune.

We all realize that the object of the game is to turn as many otherwise law abiding citizens into prohibited persons as possible. Should someone who purchases a 30 round magazine be barred for life from voting or shooting. If that is the only thing they've ever done wrong, I would lean that they had paid their debt after serving their sentence and should have their rights restored.

Where there are in fact victims, I would agree with your assessment RD. Penalty... then restitution... then we can talk about rights... maybe.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 03:42 PM #35
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I've taken family members from England to ranges here and the only ID anyone has asked for is mine. Family members are usually drooling over all the guns they see.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 05:23 PM #36
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#1 signing into a gun range isn't a crime, even if you are prohibited. A signature on a form won't establish probable cause of a crime.

#2 even if you signed a form, that doesn't prove that you actually fired a weapon. You could have simply gone with a friend, signed the form to go to the firing line and never manipulated a gun. Still don't have probable cause.

#3 let's imagine some cop pulls the records, runs everyone, finds a prohibited person... Now they have to pull video, actually see the person handle a weapon, confirm their identity through an outside source and then charge.

Is it POSSIBLE...? Maybe, but I'd love to work for that department, if they have enough time to go on fishing expeditions like that they must pay really well and have a ton of openings. I'm sure that if it ever actually happened, it's more likely that a cop was there at the range off duty and saw someone they knew was prohibited and got a warrant for them. Even then, still highly unlikely.

To answer the original question though, no, a prohibited person is prohibited.

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Old December 3rd, 2019, 05:26 PM #37
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Originally Posted by danb View Post
Hmmmmmmm. So how can a range rent you a machine gun and supressor without paying the $200 transfer tax. Times 2 even.



Renting at a range is not possession, as long as it stays under the owners (FFL) control in the building.



As a rule, ranges dont do background checks before they rent you a pistol.
You pay a tax to OWN an automatic or silencer, not to use one. Completely different argument.

And yes, possessing a gun means to have possession... meaning that you were in control of it. You don't need to own it to possess it, you simply need to possess it to possess it.

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Old December 3rd, 2019, 07:31 PM #38
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Originally Posted by Sam Salvati View Post
Got a few coworkers who are drug felons, can they shoot at a rental range with my (I’m not a felon) guns or the guns the range rents?
NO!
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 08:33 PM #39
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Got a few coworkers who are drug felons, can they shoot at a rental range with my (I’m not a felon) guns or the guns the range rents?
nope
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 08:38 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon059 View Post
#1 signing into a gun range isn't a crime, even if you are prohibited. A signature on a form won't establish probable cause of a crime.

#2 even if you signed a form, that doesn't prove that you actually fired a weapon. You could have simply gone with a friend, signed the form to go to the firing line and never manipulated a gun. Still don't have probable cause.

#3 let's imagine some cop pulls the records, runs everyone, finds a prohibited person... Now they have to pull video, actually see the person handle a weapon, confirm their identity through an outside source and then charge.

Is it POSSIBLE...? Maybe, but I'd love to work for that department, if they have enough time to go on fishing expeditions like that they must pay really well and have a ton of openings. I'm sure that if it ever actually happened, it's more likely that a cop was there at the range off duty and saw someone they knew was prohibited and got a warrant for them. Even then, still highly unlikely.

To answer the original question though, no, a prohibited person is prohibited.

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