M2 Ball in an M1 Garand

Major03 · Jul 10, 2018

Yes, the same .30 cal projectiles can/will work in both .308 Win and 30'06. Some of the heavier bullets you can use in .30'06 will have issues with case capacity in .308.

You just want to be careful with the M1 Garand about pressures (or get an adjustable gas plug)

Blacksmith101 · Jul 10, 2018

ras_oscar said:
I will risk sounding like a newb, and in the interest of maintaining abundant caution; When I select a projectile to reload handgun cartridges, I select a projectile based on the cartridge I plan to reload. 9MM luger, 44 magnum, 45 ACP. Unlike those projectiles, when I go to select a projectile for 308 or 30-06, I go to 30 cal. Please confirm the same projectile is/ can be used for both cartridges.

Yes they both, along with quite a few others, use a .308" diameter bullet.

dist1646 · Jul 10, 2018

ras_oscar said:
I will risk sounding like a newb, and in the interest of maintaining abundant caution; When I select a projectile to reload handgun cartridges, I select a projectile based on the cartridge I plan to reload. 9MM luger, 44 magnum, 45 ACP. Unlike those projectiles, when I go to select a projectile for 308 or 30-06, I go to 30 cal. Please confirm the same projectile is/ can be used for both cartridges.

Bullet diameter should be .308" for both .308 and .30-06.

Pinecone · Jul 10, 2018

No different than some pistols. .44 Mag and .44 Special use the same bullets. .38 Special and .357 Mag also use the same bullets.

.308 typically maxs out at 175 - 185 grain bullets. .30-06 (except in Garands) maxs out in the 220 grain range. .300 Win Mag also uses the same diameter bullets, and can go a bit heavier than .30-06.

ras_oscar · Jul 16, 2018

Major03 said:
Yes, the same .30 cal projectiles can/will work in both .308 Win and 30'06. Some of the heavier bullets you can use in .30'06 will have issues with case capacity in .308.

You just want to be careful with the M1 Garand about pressures (or get an adjustable gas plug)

1. There are 2 types of adjustable gas plugs. One reduces pressure by increasing the volume of the gas cylinder. The other by providing ports of varying size to vent a portion of the cylinder gas. I assume if one were to install an aftermarket gas plug, adjust it for modern 30-06 ammo, then fire M2 ball, the weapon woould fail to cycle due to insufficient pressure. Correct?

2. I can readily identify failures due to insufficient gas pressure . I plan to reload 30-06 for M1 Garand by starting at the start load and then working up as necessary until the weapon cycled reliably. What signs short of op rod failure should I look for to indicate excessive pressure? I am working in 0.5 grain increments using a 149grain FMJ projectile, using data published for the M1 Garand, and don't want to overshoot.

Jerry M · Jul 16, 2018

For Ball Ammunition equivalent - keep it safe, keep it simple:
Use IMR4895, H4895 or AA2495 powders from a reloading manual specifically for Service Rifle or M1 Garand. Remember that this rifle was designed in the 1930's. Use 149 to 155 grain bullets (150 grain Remington Core-Lock are cheap and will work).

Most of the 149 grain bullets will have the cannelure placed for .308 winchester not .30-06, and should be ignored. You should get the best accuracy from 150 gr SMK or 155 Palma bullets, but they will be more expensive.

With 1 MOA iron sights a cloud casting a shadow or a missed 5 MPH wind gust will take you out of the x ring at 200 yards faster than any change in powder sensitivity to temperature. Unless you happen to store your ammunition in the freezer before taking it out to shoot.

For a baseline in accuracy, buy a box of Federal Gold Metal Match .30-06 with the 168 gr SMK. This is safe to shoot in the M1.

Good Luck

Jerry

byf43 · Jul 17, 2018

ras_oscar said:
1. There are 2 types of adjustable gas plugs. One reduces pressure by increasing the volume of the gas cylinder. The other by providing ports of varying size to vent a portion of the cylinder gas. I assume if one were to install an aftermarket gas plug, adjust it for modern 30-06 ammo, then fire M2 ball, the weapon woould fail to cycle due to insufficient pressure. Correct?

2. I can readily identify failures due to insufficient gas pressure . I plan to reload 30-06 for M1 Garand by starting at the start load and then working up as necessary until the weapon cycled reliably. What signs short of op rod failure should I look for to indicate excessive pressure? I am working in 0.5 grain increments using a 149grain FMJ projectile, using data published for the M1 Garand, and don't want to overshoot.

I THINK that I still have a letter (scanned) from NRA on '06 loads, on an old laptop.

IF I can find it, I'll post it up.

Instead of starting at 'starting loads', look for loads at/near 2600 fps to 2800 fps with the correct powders/bullet weight.
The '06 sweet spot was right around those velocities.

W-748 (47.7 gr) and Sierra 168 MatchKings in LC69 and LC72 brass is very accurate in my beloved M1 Garand.

That load IS one from that NRA letter, from years ago.

Again, IF I can locate that letter, I'll post it up.

I did post it several years ago, when another member and I were discussing it.

Some data from about 4 years ago:

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=159763&highlight=.30-'06+loads&page=2

K-43 · Jul 17, 2018

I'm just repeating Blacksmith 101's link to the PDF file of the article.
NRA tested M1 loads (Courtesy of the NRA) from Master Po's Temple. (loads reaily slow) http://masterpostemple.bravepages.com/M1load.htm
There was a pamphlet that listed the data this way, but I don't think reprints are available from NRA anymore.

Recommended .30 caliber M1 loadings from the NRA
147 - 155 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets
IMR 3031 - 48.0 grains
IMR 4895 - 49.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 50.0 grains
W748 - 48.0 grains
AA2460 - 49.0 grains
AA2520 - 51.0 grains
AA2495 - 50.5 grains
H4895 - 49.0 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 49.0 grains
RL-12 - 48.0 grains

165/168 grain FMJ, HP or SP bullets
IMR 4895 - 47.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 48.0 grains
AA2520 - 47.5 grains
AA2495 - 47.0 grains
H4895 - 47.5 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 47.0 grains
RL-12 - 44.5 grains

173/175 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets

IMR 4895 - 46.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 47.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.0 grains
AA2495 - 46.0 grains
H4895 - 47.0 grains
BLC-2 - 48.0 grains

180 grain FMJ, SP or HPBT bullets

IMR 4895 - 43.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.5 grains
AA2495 - 45.5 grains
H4895 - 44.0 grains
BLC-2 - 47.5 grains
RL-12 - 41.5 grains

The general wisdom rule of thumb has always been no faster than IMR3031 and no slower than IMR4320.
People argue Varget is on the slow side for the M1, but IMR4320 is the old maxim for slowest acceptable powder, so Varget isn't too too slow.
I prefer to stick with the old school IMR 4895 and IMR4064, but Reloader 15, etc is good.

M2 Ball in an M1 Garand

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