Go Back   Maryland Shooters > The Arsenal > Rifles
Don't Have An Account? Register Here

Join MD Shooters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 22nd, 2019, 02:00 PM #51
dist1646 dist1646 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Eldersburg
Posts: 6,728
dist1646 dist1646 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Eldersburg
Posts: 6,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOriginalMexicanBob View Post
I don't follow the National Matches but it's very common for match competitors to be sponsored by a manufacturer with highly tuned firearms...not all parts from that maker either. Apparently Colt doesn't play the game much...or they can't afford to as their precarious financial position demands.

Colt doesn't outsource their manufacturing of their core products either. They do use outside vendors who specialize in forging operations to supply the raw forgings for their products...(a little secret...most gunmakers do the same). There's little reason for a gunmaker to have a complete foundry operation and all the payroll and other costs incurred when they can hire a vendor who specializes is those processes. I know Ruger has its own foundry but they also have diversified into making castings for other products in other industries to help support it.

Colt (and others) do QC inspections to verify the forgings meet all specs and do the machining and finishing into the final product. None of that is a secret. The M16 and M4 contractors all are aware of the entire process and where all parts come from and the entire inspection process.

The Colt Competition line of AR-based rifles several years ago was licensed to Colt Competition...a different manufacturer. After the bottom fell out of the market after the 2016 election that company went under.

I've been to the S&W factory and about the only part of their polymer pistol lines they make themselves is the barrel...everything else comes from outside vendors. It's simply the way of manufacturing today.
I was informed that CMT does the receivers for Colt, to include machining operations.

Actually, very few competitors are sponsored in matches. Sponsors usually reserve sponsorship to top level competitors only. Colt is not in the game because they are not up to the demands of the competitors, if they were, they would have significant presence. Instead, other companies filled the need and profited from doing so.

Colt does outsource, many companies do and there is nothing wrong with that as long as consistent quality is maintained.

Ruger has it's own foundry and one of the reasons for it is that they specialize in the art of investment casting. It costs less to cast their M77 receivers than it would to machine them completely from bar stock. One of the advantages is the molecular orientation in the steel. Some may claim otherwise but, I have seen their M77 receivers stand up to things that would destroy another receiver.

Considering how long Colt has been in business, one would think that they should be in a position of dominance in the market. The long standing mismanagement by more than one group of executives, the chapter 11's, failure to replace worn machinery and loss of highly skilled craftsmen that they once had, have taken it's toll. I like the stuff Colt made back in the day, single actions, Pythons, etc.. The earlier ones were true gems. Sadly, quality, even for those, was in decline toward the end of their respective runs.
dist1646 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2019, 04:09 PM #52
TheOriginalMexicanBob's Avatar
TheOriginalMexicanBob TheOriginalMexicanBob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Frederick
Posts: 6,757
TheOriginalMexicanBob TheOriginalMexicanBob is offline
Senior Member
TheOriginalMexicanBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Frederick
Posts: 6,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by dist1646 View Post
Considering how long Colt has been in business, one would think that they should be in a position of dominance in the market. The long standing mismanagement by more than one group of executives, the chapter 11's, failure to replace worn machinery and loss of highly skilled craftsmen that they once had, have taken it's toll. I like the stuff Colt made back in the day, single actions, Pythons, etc.. The earlier ones were true gems. Sadly, quality, even for those, was in decline toward the end of their respective runs.

No disagreement. Considering that Colt is the originator of the 1911 and purchased the patents from Armalite fairly early on, one would think that Colt would own those markets. While Colt has often had financial problems (many gun makers have...it's the kind of market they're in), in the 1950s they were purchased by a conglomerate...Penn-Texas...which was known for buying and bleeding companies dry. They changed the name to Colt Industries to capitalize on the Colt name and milked the company for M16 contracts and let the commercial side slide away...little innovation...starved the commercial side of modern machinery...let the law enforcement market get away from them. As long as the M16 kept the corporate ownership fat and happy it continued. Once the M16 market went away they sucked out what was left and left Colt's carcass on the side of the road for several new owners who were not gun people or tried to be politically correct and made things worse.

Colt still makes a good product...they do still have good people and some managers who care but the ownership is suspect to say the least. They've let the Single-Action Army product all but die away when they would again...own that market. Their new revolver lines are as good as any comparable product made but people still aren't sure whether they will still be there long term. To not have a .22LR handgun in the lineup is beyond stupid. The same goes for a .44 Magnum.

I'm hoping the future will bring new products out and help the company be successful...there's always room for competition and they can build a good product.
__________________
Back-to-Back World War Champion.
TheOriginalMexicanBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2019, 07:22 PM #53
omegared24 omegared24 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ijamsville, MD
Posts: 2,988
omegared24 omegared24 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ijamsville, MD
Posts: 2,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by dist1646 View Post
Not what I said but, take it how you please. Using reverse logic, the only company that puts out a good product would be Colt. That simply isn't true. If it were, Colt would absolutely dominate the National Matches, they don't. Good luck finding one there, especially in the hands of the top competitors! As others have since stated, Colt doesn't even make their own , they subcontract it out. Now, they have decided to leave our civilians behind so they can fill contracts for FOREIGN countries. Colt has a history of abandoning civilians. They were not our friends in '94 and they are not now. They are most definitely not the company they once were.
I don't have any idea what you're talking about here. You're all over the place.
omegared24 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2019, 10:55 PM #54
clandestine's Avatar
clandestine clandestine is offline
AR15 Technical Instructor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 34,559
Send a message via Skype™ to clandestine
clandestine clandestine is offline
AR15 Technical Instructor
clandestine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 34,559
Send a message via Skype™ to clandestine
So much misinformation in this thread.

I don't even care to correct it.
__________________
"It is well, I die hard, but I am not afraid to go."
clandestine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2019, 12:50 AM #55
babalou's Avatar
babalou babalou is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Monkey County
Posts: 4,977
babalou babalou is offline
Senior Member
babalou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Monkey County
Posts: 4,977
CMTTAC

Quote:
Originally Posted by dist1646 View Post
I was informed that CMT does the receivers for Colt, to include machining operations.

Actually, very few competitors are sponsored in matches. Sponsors usually reserve sponsorship to top level competitors only. Colt is not in the game because they are not up to the demands of the competitors, if they were, they would have significant presence. Instead, other companies filled the need and profited from doing so.

Colt does outsource, many companies do and there is nothing wrong with that as long as consistent quality is maintained.

Ruger has it's own foundry and one of the reasons for it is that they specialize in the art of investment casting. It costs less to cast their M77 receivers than it would to machine them completely from bar stock. One of the advantages is the molecular orientation in the steel. Some may claim otherwise but, I have seen their M77 receivers stand up to things that would destroy another receiver.

Considering how long Colt has been in business, one would think that they should be in a position of dominance in the market. The long standing mismanagement by more than one group of executives, the chapter 11's, failure to replace worn machinery and loss of highly skilled craftsmen that they once had, have taken it's toll. I like the stuff Colt made back in the day, single actions, Pythons, etc.. The earlier ones were true gems. Sadly, quality, even for those, was in decline toward the end of their respective runs.
Another member here loves them. I have thought about purchasing one or more of their UHP Gen2 lowers. Watched their vids.
babalou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2019, 06:22 AM #56
omegared24 omegared24 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ijamsville, MD
Posts: 2,988
omegared24 omegared24 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ijamsville, MD
Posts: 2,988
If anyone wants to sell any Colt rifles/parts to me for cheap feel free to reach out. I'm happy to take them off your hands.

I'll even take donations.
omegared24 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2019, 09:35 AM #57
Combloc's Avatar
Combloc Combloc is offline
Stop Negassing me!!!!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: In a House
Posts: 3,564
Combloc Combloc is offline
Stop Negassing me!!!!!
Combloc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: In a House
Posts: 3,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegared24 View Post
If anyone wants to sell any Colt rifles/parts to me for cheap feel free to reach out. I'm happy to take them off your hands.

I'll even take donations.
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=m4a1

Here's one for you and it's Md legal too. Madness!!
__________________
Stop negassing me!!!!


If it's Czech and it's military, it's Cool!!
Combloc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2019, 09:57 AM #58
omegared24 omegared24 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ijamsville, MD
Posts: 2,988
omegared24 omegared24 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ijamsville, MD
Posts: 2,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combloc View Post
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=m4a1

Here's one for you and it's Md legal too. Madness!!
I know...I was hoping I'd get some anti-Colt people to just give it away.
omegared24 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2019, 12:33 PM #59
rockstarr's Avatar
rockstarr rockstarr is offline
Major Deplorable
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Bolshevik Lands
Posts: 3,620
rockstarr rockstarr is offline
Major Deplorable
rockstarr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Bolshevik Lands
Posts: 3,620
most hilarious comment ive heard so far was from colion noir.

" Colt is selling wrangler jeans in a Gucci market, at ralph lauren prices".

HAHAHA


So true though imo
__________________
Be a humble person, for you are no better or anymore special than the person next to you...
rockstarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2019, 01:34 PM #60
clandestine's Avatar
clandestine clandestine is offline
AR15 Technical Instructor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 34,559
Send a message via Skype™ to clandestine
clandestine clandestine is offline
AR15 Technical Instructor
clandestine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 34,559
Send a message via Skype™ to clandestine
ETA. Not worth my time.
__________________
"It is well, I die hard, but I am not afraid to go."
clandestine is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > The Arsenal > Rifles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
2019, Congregate Media, LP Privacy Policy Terms of Service