the National Reciprocity Act is Dead!

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    sgt23preston

    sgt23preston

    USMC LLA. NRA Life Member
    May 19, 2011
    4,004
    Perry Hall
    This was always a Dog & Pony Show...

    No ONE ever wanted it to pass...

    "Just make it look like we tried"...
     
    M

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,752
    iH8DemLibz said:
    I like how the number was as high as 55 senators. We only hold 51 seats.

    That means 4 Democrats were allowed to cross over. Mad math skills right there.

    I can imagine Joe Machin and Heidi Heitkamp being two of them. Doug Jones from Alabama would have been a smart play too. With him just coming into the senate .

    Can't put my finger on the fourth crossover.
    Click to expand...

    Remember though, if there were 56 Republicans voting yes, they wouldn't be allowed to cross over.
     
    rob

    rob

    DINO Extraordinaire
    Oct 11, 2010
    3,099
    Augusta, GA
    There is hope for a 60 seat majority in the senate after the 2018 elections. Of the 33 senate seats up for re-election, only 8 of them are republicans. The dems have to hold on to 25 seats to maintain the status quo.

    If the Republicans could pick up 8 of those dem seats, they would have full control of the senate.

    Granted, because of the furor over trump, it is unlikely republicans would pick up 8, but they may get closer to 60 then they are now.

    Rob.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk
     
    Rob R.

    Rob R.

    Active Member
    Oct 29, 2016
    771
    Harford Co
    It’s been said for several weeks now the bill had as much of a chance of passing the senate as Pelosi/Schumer giving Trump a standing ovation at the sotu address. Combining the billion dollar fix nics bill was certainly part of it
     
    Gryphon

    Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    McConnell needs to stop being such a p*$$y and call this up for a cloture vote. It’s close, so let’s put some pressure on those saying they won’t support it and see if their constituents add enough pressure on them to change their mind. They can always pull a “Brochin” and vote no later. If McConnell is convinced they won’t vote for cloture he should grow some balls and change the d*mn rules. The D,s played those games when they had a majority. The R’s have both houses and the Presidency, if they can’t pass legislation to universally protect an enumerated fundamental right nationwide they are near useless.
     
    Schipperke

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,749
    So the proponents call for a vote when they know they'll get bitch slapped. It's always been a dog and pony show and those that support would rather not have egg on their face.

    retr.gif
     
    swinokur

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,462
    Westminster USA
    Or McConnell could remove the 3/5 requirement to end debate (cloture) If removal is good enough for judicial confirmations, it should be good enough for all legislation. Why are judicial confirmations given more weight than regular legislation? That isn't equality at all.

    And for those that want to know why 60 votes, the Senate rules require a 3/5 vote of the Senate to end debate (cloture). After debate is stopped a simple majority is then required for passage (51 votes)

    3/5 x 100=60
     
    joppaj

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,654
    MD
    Gryphon said:
    If McConnell is convinced they won’t vote for cloture he should grow some balls and change the d*mn rules. The D,s played those games when they had a majority.
    Click to expand...

    The Dems changed the rule on Judicial nominees to ram some of them through, but left it in place for the USSC and all other legislative issues. McConnell changed it for the USSC to get Garland through, but left it in place for all other legislative business. Kill the quorum call and the majority in the Senate is unstoppable. On 51 votes, the majority can outlaw anything they want and we can not rely on the USSC to overturn it. There is a chance of losing the House in 2018 and frankly the Senate is a lot closer than it should be. The Dems COULD control everything by January of 2021. I don't want Schumer and Feinstein writing gun control legislation and knowing they can pass it with a simple majority.
     
    swinokur

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,462
    Westminster USA
    On reflection, I kind of agree with you. Changing things could come back to haunt us.

    We really just need to find a different path to get this done, if that's possible at all.
     
    Biggfoot44

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    33,145
    The ( comparitive) best shot was blown , when it was delinked from the fixNICS bill.
     
    Hawkeye

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    joppaj said:
    The Dems changed the rule on Judicial nominees to ram some of them through, but left it in place for the USSC and all other legislative issues. McConnell changed it for the USSC to get Garland through, but left it in place for all other legislative business. Kill the quorum call and the majority in the Senate is unstoppable. On 51 votes, the majority can outlaw anything they want and we can not rely on the USSC to overturn it. There is a chance of losing the House in 2018 and frankly the Senate is a lot closer than it should be. The Dems COULD control everything by January of 2021. I don't want Schumer and Feinstein writing gun control legislation and knowing they can pass it with a simple majority.
    Click to expand...

    Exactly.

    The 3/5 rule is there as a hedge against mob rule by simple majority. It is a *good* thing.
     
    Schipperke

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,749
    D

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    This is what I was thinking of:

    Patrick said:
    So there are multiple issues here, but the TL;DR version is, "The GOP could make this law if they wanted to make it law."

    Pro-2A bills can become law by attaching them as amendments to "must pass" bills. In the case of this Congress, you will see some serious infrastructure money trading hands. Dems want that money, and they will take the strings the GOP attach to it.

    But, aren't amendments also subject to filibusters? Eh...not on the big bills.

    Here's how it works:


    1. Bill $$$ spending/authorization bill needs to pass for some reason or another.
    2. Everyone wants in on the bill, and wants to attach their special amendment on it, usually because the bill won't otherwise pass.
    3. Filibuster of amendments...or not. You see the minority party also wants amendments to attach. So they...
    4. Broker a deal with the majority where each side is allowed 2/4/6/10 amendments that are guaranteed a straight up/down vote, under a suspension of the rules. That means those amendments cannot be filibustered.
    5. Votes commence, and hilarity ensues.
    The leadership in each party decide what amendments are included in the sausage-making party. It's usually high-priority stuff.


    Here is why National Reciprocity is not "high-priority" for the GOP:

    • A lot of GOP establishment types don't like "gun people".
    • Senate mid-terms are due in 2018, and with the right turnout the GOP can pick up Senate seats sufficient to force cloture on a filibuster. Pure power, right there.
    • The GOPe uses gun issues as a way to drive votes and donations.
    • If Reciprocity passes today, then under the GOPe theory there is zero reason for "gun people" to show up and vote, or to donate resources to the GOP.
    The only way reciprocity passes is if we The People call them on their ******** when they say, "If it weren't for those darn Democrats, we'd have it. Now why don't you open your wallets and help us win in 2018?"

    There will be bills. They will allow amendments. It will be up to us to force our way into those votes.

    Oh, and if anyone thinks the NRA hasn't played this same game they are nuts. You'll need to squeeze a lot of pressure points this year to forward your civil rights.
    Click to expand...
     
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