Kilroy
Ultimate Member
- Jul 27, 2011
- 3,069
"Two to the chest, one to the head" Really?
- Thread starter mercop
- Start date
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+1.
Point already made, this 'drill' is intended to get you to concentrate. Constantly thinking shot placement. We should all aspire to be as good as the gent in this video. As far as philosophy, I like how Clint Smith at ThunderRanch puts it.
drew_acid
Kreuzritter
Center mass for the average concealed gun carrier in my opinion is the only reasonable way to train. While it sounds sexy for 2 & 1 it’s simply not reality.
How often does the average Joe actually go to the range and practice a deadly force situation? A lot of ranges won’t even let you draw from the holster. For the ones that do, where is the stress involved with a force on force encounter?
The head is such a small target in comparison to the torso. An excellent point by mercop is how many shooters actually see their sights? A head shot (distance dependent) will most likely require the use sights.
Some statistics show an average 25% ratio of rounds fired vs. hits in Police involved shootings. These are trained professionals – how many average Joes have similar training or were even required to qualify with their CCW gun of choice?
Stress is the greatest training aid ever. It shows our ability to react, think and default to our training. It also shows our weaknesses and what would most likely happen in a real situation. I applaud mercop for his force on force training –
We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training
How often does the average Joe actually go to the range and practice a deadly force situation? A lot of ranges won’t even let you draw from the holster. For the ones that do, where is the stress involved with a force on force encounter?
The head is such a small target in comparison to the torso. An excellent point by mercop is how many shooters actually see their sights? A head shot (distance dependent) will most likely require the use sights.
Some statistics show an average 25% ratio of rounds fired vs. hits in Police involved shootings. These are trained professionals – how many average Joes have similar training or were even required to qualify with their CCW gun of choice?
Stress is the greatest training aid ever. It shows our ability to react, think and default to our training. It also shows our weaknesses and what would most likely happen in a real situation. I applaud mercop for his force on force training –
We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training
Not taking anything away from Lutron.. he's a machine and one of the best shooters of our time, hands down. But the drills he's running in that video are tempo drills. After time, the muscle memory is developed such that the shots come in rhythm and the muzzle goes where it needs to go. There isn't any body stress, and I'm guessing he could do it with his eyes closed nearly as well.
Really?! You would actually use police statistics? 90% of the police I have trained with are worse shots than my daughter and train even less than she does. Not a good statistic to quote.
Those of us that take our training seriously will train at every opportunity whether it be in the house or at a range. Those of us that take concealed carry seriously will train even more.
agreed
drew_acid
Kreuzritter
You completely validated my comment!! The so called "trained professionals" are supposed to be prepared to use deadly force, but most only qualify once a year under no stress at 70%. So it is a valid statistic compared to the CCW citizens level of training. It would be interesting to see the stats of citizen hits.
How many average Joes take training seriously??? Most attend the minimum mandatory class for their CCW and seldom much else. They have a false confidence in their permit.
Those like you (and me) that train are in the minority when compared to the numbers of permit holders. The frequency of attending serious training would be an interesting poll to take outside of MD in shall issues states...
Ah, misunderstood the point you were trying to make, a very valid point it is too. I can't tell you the number of folks who want to take a first steps or basic pistol class so they can get their CCW permit from another state and you never see them again for any follow training. This never ceases to amaze me as to how people think they will suddenly be capable of shooting dead center shots under extreme stress because they are able to shoot bulls eyes when at the local range.
Rattlesnake46319
Curmidget
Rattlesnake46319
Curmidget
I must say this argument is moot when the center of mass is armored when the two to the chest might stun somewhat and the headshot as long as it is under the helmet would be decisive. Shooting for the thighs of armored assailants could also prove lethal.
Other than police officers and usa troops in Combat who is wearing body armor? Or is this just an interesting argument for the heck of it.?
I am just saying it does'nt matter who is shooting at you and BG's are using body armor more frequently as well. I remember a western where the BG was famous for heart shots so the GG wore a steel plate took multiple hits to the chest and killed the BG. If for whatever reason CM hits do not neutralize whatever is threatening you you might want to reevaluate your shot placement. It is just like any other type of fighting if you hit someone in the jaw as hard as you can and it does'nt phase him you might want to move on to the kidneys,knees,solarplexus or whatever else is available.
Kilroy
Ultimate Member
- Jul 27, 2011
- 3,069
What if your opponent has a ballistic shield? Then what?
Train for most likely situations, if that doesn't work, improvise on the spot. That approach usually works well.
RoadDawg
Nos nostraque Deo
- Dec 6, 2010
- 94,445
Multiple shots to the center of mass and vertical tracking if necessary... the first shots get his attention the latter shots get the idea though his head that he is not going to win...
Nuff said... 
drew_acid
Kreuzritter
A very interesting (but long) read -
Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue
http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm
"As for body armor, the idea of becoming proficient with the Mozambique drill is fabulous!!! Be ready to put one between the running lights if one is wearing body armor, but, again, this should be the exception. Of all the thousands of autopsies I've seen, I can't remember a single one that was wearing body armor. Still, it makes a good case for being flexible and ready to go to Plan B should your first round or two bounce off a Second Chance. And there's always the 44 minutes in L.A. to think about." (quote from above link)
Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue
http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm
"As for body armor, the idea of becoming proficient with the Mozambique drill is fabulous!!! Be ready to put one between the running lights if one is wearing body armor, but, again, this should be the exception. Of all the thousands of autopsies I've seen, I can't remember a single one that was wearing body armor. Still, it makes a good case for being flexible and ready to go to Plan B should your first round or two bounce off a Second Chance. And there's always the 44 minutes in L.A. to think about." (quote from above link)
I suppose fire to keep them behind the shield till I can close to contact distance. Whatever gets YOU out alive. If I am engaged in a lethal force encounter I fight till it is over.
marlin.357
NRA Life Member, MSI, SAF
This guy didn't think so either, got him killed.... Link
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