HBAR vs. other barrel profiles

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  • Merlin593

    Active Member
    Mar 29, 2013
    353
    Towson, MD
    I'll ask my wise brothers for some feedback on something that has been nagging at me since SB281 went into effect.

    Why would an HBAR profile be acceptable for an AR build (80% or stripped lower) or if purchasing a complete rifle from a shop vs. illegal if using government, light or pencil barrel profiles?

    How does the HBAR variant make the gun supposedly safer?
    I can throw as many bullets down range in the same amount of time using any of the profiles. The barrel profile does not limit the number of rounds a gun can hold. The weight differential is ounces (maybe up to 1lb) - but not pounds. Its not like a bad guy is going to say - Gee, the gun is too heavy with this damn HBAR barrel so I'll take something else with me to the robbery/shooting spree I'm planning on this week.

    Better something than nothing I guess (rather than a complete ban) but who the hell thought this up?
    Any significant rationale behind this that I'm missing or was it just the ignorance of the people who wrote the law that don't really know what they're talking about?
    I'm assuming the latter :)
    Any insight/comments are appreciated.
    Best,
    Jim
     

    Dogmeat

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 5, 2013
    4,641
    Montgomery County, MD
    It is a hold over from the time when we had a National Ban. There was an specific exclusion in the law for competitive target shooting and the "Allowed" rifle was the Colt Sporter HBAR Match Target. As a result, when they re-instituted the ban via SB281, they left that exclusion in the law. It has since been expanded to include all of the HBAR profile barrels.

    I seem to recall, from one of the many, many times I was in Annapolis starting in 2005, that the HBAR was considered safer because you couldn't install one of those scary flash suppressors or attach a bayonet lug, or a grenade launcher. Can't have any drive by bayonettings!! Makes no sense, but neither does most (all?) of SB281.
     

    Bald Fat Guy

    Active Member
    Oct 7, 2014
    418
    It is from the 1994 Md Assult weapon ban. The HBAR was specifically excluded from being a Regulated Weapon. From 1994 to 2013 was mainly an issue for 18-20yr olds, but post FSA13 became a huge issue.
     

    rob-cubed

    In need of moderation
    Sep 24, 2009
    5,387
    Holding the line in Baltimore
    Gun laws don't make sense. Be a good citizen and don't question their logic!

    What really pisses me off is the M1A is on the ban list, another classic marksman's rifle like the HBAR that *should* have been exempted for sporting reasons. It doesn't even look evil.
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,318
    That whole list was a cheap cut-and-paste job from California law. If we had a competent legislature, they would have been holding hearings on declaring O'Malley mentally incapable of holding office - this was an incredibly shoddy proposal on so many levels it's not funny.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,365
    SoMD / West PA
    Gun laws don't make sense. Be a good citizen and don't question their logic!

    What really pisses me off is the M1A is on the ban list, another classic marksman's rifle like the HBAR that *should* have been exempted for sporting reasons. It doesn't even look evil.

    The Polytechnic M14 isn't :innocent0
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    It is a hold over from the time when we had a National Ban. There was an specific exclusion in the law for competitive target shooting and the "Allowed" rifle was the Colt Sporter HBAR Match Target. As a result, when they re-instituted the ban via SB281, they left that exclusion in the law. It has since been expanded to include all of the HBAR profile barrels.

    I seem to recall, from one of the many, many times I was in Annapolis starting in 2005, that the HBAR was considered safer because you couldn't install one of those scary flash suppressors or attach a bayonet lug, or a grenade launcher. Can't have any drive by bayonettings!! Makes no sense, but neither does most (all?) of SB281.

    It is from the 1994 Md Assult weapon ban. The HBAR was specifically excluded from being a Regulated Weapon. From 1994 to 2013 was mainly an issue for 18-20yr olds, but post FSA13 became a huge issue.

    Gentlemen,

    It was actually before both of those time, as the AR-15 was on the list for the first printing in 1989. The list was updated in 1994 during the national ban, to add another 15 models, to bring it up to what it currently is.

    And pre '94 HBARs could accept bayonets, suppressors, etc.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    I'll ask my wise brothers for some feedback on something that has been nagging at me since SB281 went into effect.

    Why would an HBAR profile be acceptable for an AR build (80% or stripped lower) or if purchasing a complete rifle from a shop vs. illegal if using government, light or pencil barrel profiles?

    How does the HBAR variant make the gun supposedly safer?
    I can throw as many bullets down range in the same amount of time using any of the profiles. The barrel profile does not limit the number of rounds a gun can hold. The weight differential is ounces (maybe up to 1lb) - but not pounds. Its not like a bad guy is going to say - Gee, the gun is too heavy with this damn HBAR barrel so I'll take something else with me to the robbery/shooting spree I'm planning on this week.

    Better something than nothing I guess (rather than a complete ban) but who the hell thought this up?
    Any significant rationale behind this that I'm missing or was it just the ignorance of the people who wrote the law that don't really know what they're talking about?
    I'm assuming the latter :)
    Any insight/comments are appreciated.
    Best,
    Jim

    We, the 2A community actually came up with this in 1989 when the first list was made in MD. It was argued at the time, that the Colt HBAR Sporter (The only HBAR at the time) was used primarily for competitive shooting and if banned, it would prevent and entire class of competitors from being able to practice.compete in MD.
     

    40watt

    Free Thinking American
    Jan 12, 2013
    147
    Halethorpe Area
    So what was the effective date of the "HBAR Law"? Because ya know if you made a 80% lower before that date then you can legally put a pencil on it. As long as it was "Manufactured" before the law took effect.... October 1, 2013 correct?
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    So what was the effective date of the "HBAR Law"? Because ya know if you made a 80% lower before that date then you can legally put a pencil on it. As long as it was "Manufactured" before the law took effect.... October 1, 2013 correct?

    Yes, but I’d be very careful and make sure you at least have some proof you had purchased the 80% prior to that date. That should be sufficient if you ever get a D-bag prosecutor after you. If you don’t have any evidence if it was owned and machined prior to October 2013 I would not assemble one as anything other than an HBAR.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Yes, but I’d be very careful and make sure you at least have some proof you had purchased the 80% prior to that date. That should be sufficient if you ever get a D-bag prosecutor after you. If you don’t have any evidence if it was owned and machined prior to October 2013 I would not assemble one as anything other than an HBAR.

    Burden of proof is on the state to prove guilt, not the accused. If I bought one with cash at a gun show and drilled one hole in it on 9/29/2013, it is now no longer an 80%, it would be classified as a finished firearm. Without a receipt, how does the state prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,156
    Burden of proof is on the state to prove guilt, not the accused. If I bought one with cash at a gun show and drilled one hole in it on 9/29/2013, it is now no longer an 80%, it would be classified as a finished firearm. Without a receipt, how does the state prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?

    They will promise some dirt bag a reduced sentence if they testify you told them you did not even own an AR before the law went into effect and were bragging about how you beat the system because the State couldn't prove 'nuffin.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    They will promise some dirt bag a reduced sentence if they testify you told them you did not even own an AR before the law went into effect and were bragging about how you beat the system because the State couldn't prove 'nuffin.

    While possible, it is still hearsay at that point, and that does not prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, that would cause a conviction.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    We, the 2A community actually came up with this in 1989 when the first list was made in MD. It was argued at the time, that the Colt HBAR Sporter (The only HBAR at the time) was used primarily for competitive shooting and if banned, it would prevent and entire class of competitors from being able to practice.compete in MD.

    There were other "H-bars" back then. EA-15 comes to mind. They were competing for a piece of Colt's market share. Back then, H-bars were sought after. I had one. :thumbsup:
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Burden of proof is on the state to prove guilt, not the accused. If I bought one with cash at a gun show and drilled one hole in it on 9/29/2013, it is now no longer an 80%, it would be classified as a finished firearm. Without a receipt, how does the state prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?

    I was more going with proof you at at least purchased it prior to 10/1/13. I absolutely wouldn’t do it with one I knew I bought after the date.

    When you turned it in to a firearm is between you and your router/drill press.

    It would definitely be playing stupid games if the 80% in question wasn’t even being made prior to 10/1/13 (example, I don’t beleive the liberator was being made then).
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    I was more going with proof you at at least purchased it prior to 10/1/13. I absolutely wouldn’t do it with one I knew I bought after the date.

    When you turned it in to a firearm is between you and your router/drill press.

    It would definitely be playing stupid games if the 80% in question wasn’t even being made prior to 10/1/13 (example, I don’t beleive the liberator was being made then).
    My point is, that the burden of proof is on the state to prove your guilt. But you are correct on doing something with a lower that wasn't even made until a year or so ago. That seals your fate instantly.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Best case scenario is State having to prove guilt for a conviction.

    Slightly rephrased is to prove that not possible to be legal . : A major component or variation thereof not available until after Oct '13 . You were not of proper age to build a non-HBAR before Oct '13 .

    And finally , if your featherweight megablaster is siezed as suspected Contraband , be prepared to affirmatively shiw that it is indeed Grandfathered.
     

    themoose06

    Active Member
    Sep 11, 2016
    381
    Gun laws don't make sense. Be a good citizen and don't question their logic!

    What really pisses me off is the M1A is on the ban list, another classic marksman's rifle like the HBAR that *should* have been exempted for sporting reasons. It doesn't even look evil.



    M1A? Banned

    AR10’s? No restrictions, cash and carry, no hbar
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    When the original bans came out, the antis wanted to show they were not against "sporting" uses of firearms. So the HBAR was exempted for sporting use.

    The ban language was changed to include copies and imitations, so other HBARs, that the Colt, were also legal.

    The copy language was included in FSA2013, so we have the exemption for HBARs now. It is not about safety, it is about trying to not look like they want to ban all firearms.
     

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