Carroll County School System - need advice

Ammo Jon · Sep 3, 2019

fabsroman said:
What is the "best possible education"? I think I need to figure that one out. Will my kids really end up with less of an education in Carroll County versus Howard County, versus Bethesda/Chevy Chase? Will it be better for them to grow up in a much more rural, conservative setting, versus a much more crowded liberal setting?

There is a lot that goes into a child's total education, and it isn't just math, English, social studies, and science.

I know the oldest three are pretty smart, at least according to HoCo test results, report cards, etc. My son scored as high as possible on the Cogat exam for GT and my daughter tested just barely high enough to get into GT.

Will they really be worse off somewhere else.

Then, we can get into the entire private school thing and how my buddies went to private school at Good Counsel but could barely crack 900 on the SAT back in the late 80's. They could not get into UMCP, but I got accepted to UMCP on an early decision and the letter arrived in the mail on Christmas Eve.

Would it be better for me to save money on property taxes and put that money in a 529 plan so my kids can go to college and graduate debt free?

Lots of variables here, and I am not a firm believer that private school is all it is cracked up to be. Heard too much about a private school "B" being the equivalent of a public school "A" while growing up, and then seeing too many private school kids at Montgomery College and other colleges that I deemed lesser than where me and my high school friends went. Then again, maybe I was just hanging out with the morons that went to Good Counsel and the brightest that went to Springbrook.

I would have to look at the overall graduation rate, college attendance rate, etc., which my wife has been doing for Carroll County schools versus Howard County schools. She has given me the green light on Carroll County schools in that regard. I just want to make sure that we are not stepping into a pile of poo like we did here in HoCo after she gave me the green light for western Howard County.

I mean, to move here and then read the county ordinances about firearms threw me for a loop. I know there is nothing like that in Carroll County. The past couple of election cycles here has been disheartening too.

There is a lot I do not like right now about Howard County. At first, I was devoting a lot of time, effort, and money into fighting this stuff. However, I think it is a lost cause here. So, I have to decide if it makes sense to stay here and live with it or to go elsewhere, and the schools are a part of that decision.

My main worry was that we would be moving to Carroll and I would be right back into redistricting issues, "equity" stupidity, etc. with the school system. That does not seem to be the case though based upon the replies I have seen here.

No deductions for excessively long book reports?

GTOGUNNER · Sep 3, 2019

*Howard County has 22% of kids eligible for free or reduced lunches.
Carroll County has 20% and just for comparison, Cecil has 44%.

Each School has good and bad no matter where they are. It depends on the up bringing of the kid and parental involvement.

*https://mda.maryland.gov/about_mda/Documents/SNAB/Maryland-Poverty-Profiles_2018_1-15-2018_T.pdf

fabsroman · Sep 3, 2019

Ammo Jon said:
No deductions for excessively long book reports?

My kids are like me in grade school. They type slow and want to do the least amount as possible.

Once they start on MDS after grade school, I am pretty sure they will want to tell you guys about everything that is going on in their lives too, especially about how "mean" and "tough" daddy is and how they should deal with such a parent.

fabsroman · Sep 3, 2019

bkuether said:
Howard County teachers and administration spends an awful lot of effort "managing" the after effects of all the "illegal,broken, and dysfunctional" families that live in that district. I know an assistant principle from one of the HC middle schools who lives here, and the stories he tells..... And not unlike police reports from from Columbia that get censored, the school issues do as well.....

Do CC schools have some of those issues? Sure. But not to the extent of HC.

Do you want your kids trying to learn in a dysfunctional environment, or in a more functional environment where learning, and not peacekeeping is the objective?

Fabs, if you want to talk to him, let me know I can setup a meeting at a bar in the 'Burg. PM me if interested. His kids go to all three of the schools I mentioned above, and his wife teaches in one of them......

I think just the fact that his kids go to school in Carroll when he and his wife know what the schools are like in both places, speaks volumes.

Had a client once upon a time that lives in Carroll. His wife worked for the school admin here in HoCo and she was always talking about how it is frustrating to deal with a Carroll school system that is not done right when she can see how a school system should be done a la Howard County. Granted, I think they are liberals trying to pretend to be conservatives. All I have to say is that if HoCo is doing it "right", keep Carroll broken. They moved a couple of years ago, and they moved from Obrecht and those schools in the Eldersburg area to the South Carroll High School area. If they really thought the school system was so much better in HoCo, it would have been only a couple mile move across the line for "schools done right". Maybe she has changed her tune over the past 4 years.

I think I have made up my mind. Now, time to find a house and sell this one. Wish the board of education and county council had decided to go full imbecile back in June and not right before the school year started.

cww · Sep 3, 2019

Fabs, my 13 year old came home from school after the recent mass shootings and without any input from me started a conversation with "guns aren't the problem, the nuts are" and another asking if I supported gays - I am not seeing any mass liberal brainwashing going on in the schools as of yet. I have heard my 9 year old say stuff about some things being Trumps fault here and there but haven't discerned where she arrived at that yet. Not like I agree with everything he does so maybe she got it from me.... I have heard of redistricting of schools in the past but nothing ever came of it. As stated earlier. They did close some schools north of us not too long ago due to the budget and lack of enrollment. South Carroll doesn't seem to have a shortage of kids from what I can see. You have to keep in mind the entire state will be some form of PG, BC, MC or HC at some point if the trends continue.

BRONZ · Sep 3, 2019

OP

Do some research first. There is mostly opinion information in a lot of these posts as everybody wants to think their child is getting the best education.

Carroll ranked 1st in Math and 2nd in English for 2018.
Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC) and is in its last year of testing. Just do a web search. MCAP starts 2020.

Everyone wants their county to be the best, but the numbers are in and the truth may hurt for some.

Ranked in Maryland.
Carroll
Calvert
Worrchester
Queen Anne
Howard
Frederick
Montgomery

Yes Howard was 5th and Montgomery was 7th with all the money they spend. Lol

In that order and Carroll spent less too.

So do your research first.

fabsroman · Sep 3, 2019

BRONZ said:
OP

Do some research first. There is mostly opinion information in a lot of these posts as everybody wants to think their child is getting the best education.

Carroll ranked 1st in Math and 2nd in English for 2018.
Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC) and is in its last year of testing. Just do a web search. MCAP starts 2020.

Everyone wants their county to be the best, but the numbers are in and the truth may hurt for some.

Ranked in Maryland.
Carroll
Calvert
Worrchester
Queen Anne
Howard
Frederick
Montgomery

Yes Howard was 5th and Montgomery was 7th with all the money they spend. Lol

In that order and Carroll spent less too.

So do your research first.

My wife already did that research. I was shocked about the PARCC numbers. Wonder what the MAP scores look like. Like I already said, my wife gave me the green light on which school areas we can move into in Carroll County. Only question for me is what the school system/school board culture is like and whether the county has gone full imbecile like here.

Thanks for the post.

fabsroman · Sep 3, 2019

cww said:
Fabs, my 13 year old came home from school after the recent mass shootings and without any input from me started a conversation with "guns aren't the problem, the nuts are" and another asking if I supported gays - I am not seeing any mass liberal brainwashing going on in the schools as of yet. I have heard my 9 year old say stuff about some things being Trumps fault here and there but haven't discerned where she arrived at that yet. Not like I agree with everything he does so maybe she got it from me.... I have heard of redistricting of schools in the past but nothing ever came of it. As stated earlier. They did close some schools north of us not too long ago due to the budget and lack of enrollment. South Carroll doesn't seem to have a shortage of kids from what I can see. You have to keep in mind the entire state will be some form of PG, BC, MC or HC at some point if the trends continue.

I will be in Maryland for at least another 16 years. That is what I need to get my youngest through grade school. After that, how long I remain depends on two things:

1) Are my parents still living here and
2) Where are my kids settling down

If none of that is happening in Maryland, then I am kissing the state goodbye in retirement. My wife keeps looking at places to buy as a rental/retirement property in the Carolinas and Georgia. She would not hesitate to leave.

Like Montgomery County, and now Howard County, the writing is on the wall, as it is with Maryland. Just need 16 years.

kingfish · Sep 3, 2019

GTOGUNNER said:
*Howard County has 22% of kids eligible for free or reduced lunches.
Carroll County has 20% and just for comparison, Cecil has 44%.

Each School has good and bad no matter where they are. It depends on the up bringing of the kid and parental involvement.

*https://mda.maryland.gov/about_mda/Documents/SNAB/Maryland-Poverty-Profiles_2018_1-15-2018_T.pdf

Keep in mind the reduced lunches in Howard County have lots of asians included (Indians and Koreans). They don’t bring the system down

GTOGUNNER · Sep 3, 2019

kingfish said:
Keep in mind the reduced lunches in Howard County have lots of asians included (Indians and Koreans). They don’t bring the system down

The poverty level in Howard is also a higher % than Carroll.

fabsroman · Sep 3, 2019

GTOGUNNER said:
The poverty level in Howard is also a higher % than Carroll.

That is rather astonishing to hear. Howard is the third richest county in the nation, yet the poverty level is higher in Howard than Carroll. That means that there are some really, really, really rich people here and some really, really, really poor people here. No wonder there is so much harping about "equity" and investing more tax dollars in the poverty stricken areas. Good grief.

lemmdus · Sep 4, 2019

Westminster, Manchester, even Taneytown are not bad. Carroll County has been talking about closing East Middle in Westminster for a while now. It used to be the high school, built late 1920's early 1930's. The latest plan is they want to build a new middle school right next to the old school. I really don't think you can go wrong in the Westminster area with schools, but its just like everywhere else. YOU have to be your kids teacher of morals and right from wrong. My family has been happy in Norther Carroll County and their schools.

lemmdus · Sep 4, 2019

Check out Montgomery county. There are two classes, the uber wealthy and the illegal immigrants.

lemmdus · Sep 4, 2019

fabsroman said:
That is rather astonishing to hear. Howard is the third richest county in the nation, yet the poverty level is higher in Howard than Carroll. That means that there are some really, really, really rich people here and some really, really, really poor people here. No wonder there is so much harping about "equity" and investing more tax dollars in the poverty stricken areas. Good grief.

Check out Montgomery county. There are two classes, the uber wealthy and the illegal immigrants.

PO2012 · Sep 4, 2019

fabsroman said:
That is rather astonishing to hear. Howard is the third richest county in the nation, yet the poverty level is higher in Howard than Carroll. That means that there are some really, really, really rich people here and some really, really, really poor people here. No wonder there is so much harping about "equity" and investing more tax dollars in the poverty stricken areas. Good grief.

The gap between the wealthy and the poor in Carroll County is much smaller than in other areas of Maryland; we have a very solid middle class.

You'll enjoy it here.

AdrenyleneJunkie · Sep 4, 2019

Just going to leave this here:

Maryland School Report Card

This is a statewide site created to fulfill federal reporting requirements.

https://msp2018.msde.maryland.gov

And for those who just want the 2018 list of schools by rank: (in sortable csv format)
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/DataDownloads/FileDownload/374

fabsroman · Sep 5, 2019

AdrenyleneJunkie said:
Just going to leave this here:

Maryland School Report Card

This is a statewide site created to fulfill federal reporting requirements.

https://msp2018.msde.maryland.gov

And for those who just want the 2018 list of schools by rank: (in sortable csv format)
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/DataDownloads/FileDownload/374

Thanks for this post. I looked over the grades for Carroll and they are decent enough. My old high school, which gets a 5/10 on great schools, get a 60% on its report card. Would not send my kids there no way no how unless my hands and feet were tied and my mouth gagged.

smkranz · Sep 5, 2019

Our 3 boys went thru the CC public schools in Westminster, and survived to functional and civilized adulthood. One of them went into teaching (music) in Howard County vs. Carroll mostly because of the relative pay scales.

Carroll schools were less "diverse" then, staff and leadership has changed, and I'm sure the curriculum has changed as well though it seems that a lot of that is driven by the state.

Regardless of the system, you'll always need to keep your weird-shit-o-meter on for the stuff that they bring home, whether it's on paper or things they heard in school and repeat to you. Individual teachers also make a big difference in the level of scrutiny you need to apply. Like in the 3rd grade when one of my kids came home and said he had corrected his (young) teacher, in class, when she said that the Statue of Liberty is on Ellis Island, and that she probably didn't appreciate the correction.

Same kid, I think the same year, brought this classwork assignment home, which made me a marked man for the rest of the year (under the "all alcohol is bad" mantra promoted in school):

fabsroman · Sep 5, 2019

smkranz said:
Our 3 boys went thru the CC public schools in Westminster, and survived to functional and civilized adulthood. One of them went into teaching (music) in Howard County vs. Carroll mostly because of the relative pay scales.

Carroll schools were less "diverse" then, staff and leadership has changed, and I'm sure the curriculum has changed as well though it seems that a lot of that is driven by the state.

Regardless of the system, you'll always need to keep your weird-shit-o-meter on for the stuff that they bring home, whether it's on paper or things they heard in school and repeat to you. Individual teachers also make a big difference in the level of scrutiny you need to apply. Like in the 3rd grade when one of my kids came home and said he had corrected his (young) teacher, in class, when she said that the Statue of Liberty is on Ellis Island, and that she probably didn't appreciate the correction.

Same kid, I think the same year, brought this classwork assignment home, which made me a marked man for the rest of the year (under the "all alcohol is bad" mantra promoted in school):

lol - I am waiting for my 10 and 6 year old to talk to their class mates about shooting a shotgun by themselves on Monday.

Some 6 or so years ago, my now 12 year old wrote a book in 1st grade. I did not attend the book reading night because one of us had to stay home and watch the other kids. So, my wife attended. Turns out the book was about the evil unicorn that ate the princess and the queen. The book ended with the king coming out of the castle and shooting the bad unicorn. My wife texted me immediately about it and a buddy of mine that is also a hunter, who happened to be present in the class with his 1st grader at the time, texted me and it included several lol's in the text. Did not hear anything about this from the teacher or school admin.

I was up talking to the counselor one day a year or two later and figured out that her husband and two boys are hunters. She retired last year and this year we have a new, very young, counselor. Time will tell how this goes, should we be in this county for much longer.

pbharvey · Sep 5, 2019

PO2012 said:
The gap between the wealthy and the poor in Carroll County is much smaller than in other areas of Maryland; we have a very solid middle class.

You'll enjoy it here.

One reason is the lack of inventory of apartments. Don't give a place for poor people to live and they won't live there.

Carroll County School System - need advice

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