NYPD engaging in domestic intel gathering - with help of CIA

Maybe some of the more agressive leo's in the group can explain to me how they can justify/resolve the rather extreme measures that ny and other cities have taken with the principle function of gov....which is to protect and preserve freedom, liberty and private property rights

We all know that the police have no duty to protect according to our legal system.....and the police dont generally prevent crime but rather pick up the pieces

Can you give us a guess on what percentage of your job actually supports the protectio of liberty, freedom and private property rights?

This isnt anti leo but rather a suggestion that we need a lot less of it refocused on defence of liberty, freedom and private property rights

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partner you crack me up... youre anti immigration unless the right people apply which would suggest pro LE at the border level but anti proactive police work since this is obstensibly always heavy handed

So if I lock up a burglar is that protecting your property?
Car theft?
How about a shoplifter?
Since you asked where our time is spent perhaps you can articulate where, if you were Chief, our time should be spent, what activities we should be doing, and if no proactive work is to be done, than how can we do anything other than 'pick up the pieces'?

Sounds like youve got solutions and I'm listening.

Also 'aggresive LEO's'??? Remember we're both 2A so I'm not sure you want to make indirect insult attempts? 'cant we all just get along'

jaypark said:

partner you crack me up... youre anti immigration unless the right people apply which would suggest pro LE at the border level but anti proactive police work since this is obstensibly always heavy handed

So if I lock up a burglar is that protecting your property? They have already broken into my home.
Car theft? They have already stolen my car.
How about a shoplifter? They have already stolen from the store.
Since you asked where our time is spent perhaps you can articulate where, if you were Chief, our time should be spent, what activities we should be doing, and if no proactive work is to be done, than how can we do anything other than 'pick up the pieces'?

Sounds like youve got solutions and I'm listening.

Also 'aggresive LEO's'??? Remember we're both 2A so I'm not sure you want to make indirect insult attempts? 'cant we all just get along'

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HardHatMan said:

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Yeah Im sure a Posse of Untrained/Unprofessional/Unaccountable guys can do it better than the cops all while observing the Constution.

Yeah Im sure a Posse of Untrained/Unprofessional/Unaccountable guys can do it better than the cops all while observing the Constution.

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you..... uh...... may be onto something.... tell ya what I'll just smile and wave in the future.... 'nothing to see here'

jaypark said:

you..... uh...... may be onto something.... tell ya what I'll just smile and wave in the future.... 'nothing to see here'

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We knew they were coming.

They are all experts in things they have never done before.

They think people that arent trained in crap and have no accountability will be just "peachy"

clandestine said:

We knew they were coming.

They are all experts in things they have never done before.

They think people that arent trained in crap and have no accountability will be just "peachy"

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Seems to be working for the Obama

Huckleberry said:

Seems to be working for the Obama

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touche

They are all experts in things they have never done before.

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mall ninjas, tinfoil hat mafia.... I'm woefully out of my league..... FYI I just watched a zombie attack a neighbor.... I didint want to interfere with his Constitutional rights regarding 14th amendment 'pursuit of happiness' so I did nada.... this is working out

Clan the list needs updating as my comm link with the UFO's needs the newbies for their....uh .... facebook friendlist

jaypark said:

mall ninjas, tinfoil hat mafia.... I'm woefully out of my league..... FYI I just watched a zombie attack a neighbor.... I didint want to interfere with his Constitutional rights regarding 14th amendment 'pursuit of happiness' so I did nada.... this is working out

Clan the list needs updating as my comm link with the UFO's needs the newbies for their....uh .... facebook friendlist

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You are forgetting a few more things too. If you had missed the zombie you could have accidentally struk a dog with the errant rounds. You know what that means?

You get another gof kill logo for your car door.



BTW, The list has doubled in size in the past month.

Theres now almost 50 people on it.

I didnt know so many mentally awesome people could own guns.

jaypark said:

mall ninjas, tinfoil hat mafia.... I'm woefully out of my league..... FYI I just watched a zombie attack a neighbor.... I didint want to interfere with his Constitutional rights regarding 14th amendment 'pursuit of happiness' so I did nada.... this is working out

Clan the list needs updating as my comm link with the UFO's needs the newbies for their....uh .... facebook friendlist

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Don't worry, the list is updated. You should be receiving a knock at your door shortly.

Rattlesnake46319 said:

Don't worry, the list is updated. You should be receiving a knock at your door shortly.

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Well if its a knock it cant be the Police, well because they "never" knock.

bunch of paranoid, "SHTF" commandos. I'm with FPS on the side of common sense. When an undercover "nazi" comes to your house and asks about your guns, wife, kids, dogs, and Rx meds, then come whining on the internet. in the meantime, they stock Kleenex in EVERY rite-aid, walgreens, walmart, etc

Don't worry, the list is updated. You should be receiving a knock at your door shortly.

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you just made it pal.... move a little left... little more..... thank you.... the haldol dart will make it all better

Well if its a knock it cant be the Police, well because they "never" knock.

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Sir you are misinformed .... the ram or MR masterkey does 'knock'.... once or whoever has it owes the team a case of miller lite

Always business.... never personal

jaypark said:

you just made it pal.... move a little left... little more..... thank you.... the haldol dart will make it all better

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Excellent. The wife wants me to move furniture around tonight. Now I won't have to.

Excellent. The wife wants me to move furniture around tonight. Now I won't have to.

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the nice docs will help you out bro.... if Cllan dresses up.... watch out.....

jaypark said:

partner you crack me up... youre anti immigration unless the right people apply which would suggest pro LE at the border level but anti proactive police work since this is obstensibly always heavy handed

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Well, isn't that the core of what it means to be a Sovereign Country?

If you cannot control your borders or as we saw/are seeing under Bush/Obama REFUSE to control your borders then you very quickly lose the distinction between Citizens and Illegals right?

Do you think its unreasonable or irrational for me as a free citizen to want to be left while at the same time advocating that LEO's actually CONTROL our borders and severely punish those who break our laws and enter the country illegally?

I think thats a perfectly reasonable position.

The Illegal Alien is violating the Private Property of a multitude of individuals and stealing from law abiding citizens by skipping on paying hospital bills or working under a stolen SS# or any number of other violations of Private Property etc.

jaypark said:

So if I lock up a burglar is that protecting your property?
Car theft?
How about a shoplifter?
Since you asked where our time is spent perhaps you can articulate where, if you were Chief, our time should be spent, what activities we should be doing, and if no proactive work is to be done, than how can we do anything other than 'pick up the pieces'?

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First, without exception each and every example you provided was a clear sample of
Picking up the pieces"....exactly what I illustrated in my last post.

Second, what exactly is "Proactive Work"....when I hear that I can't help but be reminded of Minority Report.......either a crime has been committed or not right?

Thinking about doing something and actually doing it are a world apart.

But how do the police or Gov in this day and age protect our Private Property Rights, Liberty and Freedom....in fact I think there is no shortage of examples where Gov/LEO actively infringe upon Liberty and Freedom not to mention Private Property.

The OP is a perfect example of all of the above don't you think?

With something on the order of 70,000 pages of Fed Code on the books already its quite literally impossible for a person to NOT break very significant "laws" while going about their business without harming anyone else or infringing upon their Liberty/Freedom

I'd still like to hear a guess on what percentage of your job in your opinion actually supports the protection of liberty, freedom and private property rights.

How about a guess on what percentage is spent issueing tickets for minor traffic infractions (65 in a 55, travelling in an HOV lane, failure to stop at a stop sign etc etc)....all examples of laws that punish behavior rather than harm.

25 years ago the Police were generally "Peacekeepers".

Today we have "Law Enforcement" and I doubt anyone is going to argue that point to hard.

jaypark said:

Sounds like youve got solutions and I'm listening.

Also 'aggresive LEO's'??? Remember we're both 2A so I'm not sure you want to make indirect insult attempts? 'cant we all just get along'

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In any group of people there are people more likely to bust balls and others that are less likely to do so.

Perfect example is the thug that grew up across the st from me....he became a police officer and quite literally pulled over every single person he encountered that exceeded the speed limit, rolled through a stop sign on a side road at 1am etc etc....you know the type.

Ideas? Well for starters I think folks need to make a decision whether they want to be Free Citizens or Subjects to be Ruled......I think its clear that a LOT of people are choosing the former in recent years and are starting to push back against excessive gov..

Thats the start of it.....and to be frank restraint of gov includes restraint of law enforcement.

Personally I want to see you guys pursue actual crime with a vengence and see our courts lock up people that have done harm to person/property......we need real consequences and punishment that will actually be a deterrent....and we need to eliminate the revolving door that does nothing but support career criminal behavior.

But what do I expect from the Police?

I expect to shoot the poop with the police I know when I'm at the range, over a beer or at some social function but when you're on duty I would prefer not to encounter you at all

I don't want to be pulled over on some fishing expedition or be stopped at a "Sobriety Checkpoint" or any number of any number of other fishing expeditions.

jaypark said:

partner you crack me up... youre anti immigration unless the right people apply '

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One more point.....do you think we should be letting no skill uneducated illegals into the country who more often than not end up on some sort of welfare, skip on hospital bills and don't show up for court dates when released after getting nailed with no insurance after they got into an accident?

OR should we screen people and only allow folks who can support themselves and can demonstrate that they have no history or crime/violence?

Seems to me that its a no brainer don't you think?

Burden on Society/Taxpayers/Citizens OR an individual who will contribute or at least not be a burden.

First, without exception each and every example you provided was a clear sample of
Picking up the pieces"....exactly what I illustrated in my last post.

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so I'm doing proactive surveillance in your neighborhood due to increased autotheft, burglary, or just good INTELL... holy jumping geeeezo that does happen... and we actually identify, locate, watch and arrest said THUG... how is that 'picking up the pieces'????

25 years ago the Police were generally "Peacekeepers".

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still are... ask anyone... we resolve problems first.... if criminal activity is 'afoot' than that is the resolution however most of my encounters are of a positive nature

Perfect example is the thug that grew up across the st from me....he became a police officer and quite literally pulled over every single person he encountered that exceeded the speed limit, rolled through a stop sign on a side road at 1am etc etc....you know the type

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I do and bad apples exist in every career and you're job is not immune so take caution in your tone as to reserving this castigation on one career

I expect to shoot the poop with the police I know when I'm at the range, over a beer or at some social function but when you're on duty I would prefer not to encounter you at all

I don't want to be pulled over on some fishing expedition or be stopped at a "Sobriety Checkpoint" or any number of any number of other fishing expeditions.

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Sorry the uniform intimidates you... you dont have to worry about me... as a UC you wont see me... unless you're f-n up in some other regard... I'm the guy at the gun store, at the gun show, maybe at the Isaac Walton, the AGCB, MD Small Arms, Continental or at the extremist meeting you just left.... does this up your anxiety? It shouldnt because as a cop I could care less about what you own in terms of guns or if you like the Tea Party, but what would be helpful is that you acknowledge that in the 2A fight that you need me, and all the boots on the ground cops that are pro 2A since we're the ones that that can help you but the whole anti cop, especially anti SWAT sentiment chases away those that you should seek to assist you.

That said I'm 10-8 as it appears some good intell just came in for some guys doing street robberies.... hopefully our arrests wont stunt their plans to illegally steal, buy dope, and sponge off society

I don't know why people just can agree to disagree.

as I said before.....there are other ways to fight City Halll other than blowing it up. THe Tea Party is a good example

I don't know why people just can agree to disagree.

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what is the fun in that? once you have my time on the job these people are simply entertainment for you and the office


the rest of the cops here are choosing to not engage.... their choice.... I respect it... but I also know that as someone that is consulted on gun issues... you have to speak up at some point

Just a thought