Conceal with 80%???

Blaster229 said:

I would never trust my life to an 80% build.

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How many have you built and what's was your experience with them?

My experience with quality brand name made pistols that have have been tested, tried, and true.
Not something done by a shade tree mechanic.

Not that I need to, but Blaster is someone with 500,000 to 1,500,000 million rounds fired from a handgun in training (I forget the exact approximate, so hence the big range), and carried concealed on the job for over 15 years, and probably longer personally. He's seen a lot of guns fail, for a multitude of reasons, so leans toward platforms that have had significant vetting - not that he doesn't occasionally buy a new model release. It's just ingrained skepticism after loads of handgun experience in challenging training conditions.

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Blaster229 said:

My experience with quality brand name made pistols that have have been tested, tried, and true.
Not something done by a shade tree mechanic.

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Lol, I was too slow.

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Let's put it this way.
Your family is in a building with an active shooter. You're outside. Outside is a table. On that table is 2 guns.
An 80% G17 you cleverly crafted in your basement with a supplied jig and hand drill. Or a factory HK VP9.
Now, pick a pistol to take inside with you to save your family.

Lie and say you'll grab the 80%.

I'll tell you which pistol every single true operator on the face of the Earth would grab.

I think this back-and-forth is missing some of the point of 80% building.

Blaster229 said:

I would never trust my life to an 80% build.

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randomuser said:

How many have you built and what's was your experience with them?

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Blaster229 said:

My experience with quality brand name made pistols that have have been tested, tried, and true.
Not something done by a shade tree mechanic.

Click to expand...

fidelity said:

Not that I need to, but Blaster is someone with 500,000 to 1,500,000 million rounds fired from a handgun in training (I forget the exact approximate, so hence the big range), and carried concealed on the job for over 15 years, and probably longer personally. He's seen a lot of guns fail, for a multitude of reasons, so leans toward platforms that have had significant vetting - not that he doesn't occasionally buy a new model release. It's just ingrained skepticism after loads of handgun experience in challenging training conditions.

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Blaster229 said:

Let's put it this way.
Your family is in a building with an active shooter. You're outside. Outside is a table. On that table is 2 guns.
An 80% G17 you cleverly crafted in your basement with a supplied jig and hand drill. Or a factory HK VP9.
Now, pick a pistol to take inside with you to save your family.

Lie and say you'll grab the 80%.

I'll tell you which pistol every single true operator on the face of the Earth would grab.

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I simply asked the question that was creatively avoided by making statements of experience with the hopes that I had less experience so I would concede my point and ask no further questions, but I'll ask again since there was a heavy statement made about the use and trust of an 80%. The questions was:
"How many have you built and what's was your experience with them?"
Nothing wrong with that question, I did not mean to offend.

500k round or 1.5mil rounds is
500k round is a 20 year career shooting 69 rounds per day 7 days a week every day for 20 years with no vacation
1.5 million rounds is 20 year career shooting 206 rounds per day, 7 days a week for 20 years with no days off.
just sayin, that is alot of rounds down range, not to mention any rounds put out while not working, you know, the just for fun rounds

Look, I'm not the most experienced, I'm not the least experienced either. If people from my unit saw me posting up mos #s etc etc to try and measure penises on the internet to validate my opinions on a gun it still does not answer the question that was posed by the person asking about p80, but as an operator I can answer your last questions that you posed.

The answer is the HK, no doubt.

Malleovic said:

I think this back-and-forth is missing some of the point of 80% building.

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To bring this back on topic, I have built several p80. I can tell you the first one I built was not as good as the second. Both are amazing and I do trust them. My second is better than my first. Would I pick a gun I built in an hour and tested 0 times to bring into that building to save my family. Hell no.

If I had built a p80, tested it a few thousand times, never had a problem with it and had to decide between taking that p80 I built and tested vs an hk from the box, what would I pick.
The tested weapon.

If I were picking a p80 never tested vs an HK (or any other) from a table to use, I'd pick anything but the p80.

Just trying to say that it's really only the frame, You drill 6 holes (cause you dont drill all the way though). That's it. The rest of it is stock glock. I actually like the front rail better than the stock glock from an engineering standpoint. The stipple is great. It's a better frame than the glock imo, the drawback is the level of experience that the maker has.

Everyone has a different level of ability. Take a look at this guy in the youtube link below who made a lower from brass. Even melted the brass himself. Would you trust his polymer 80 that he handed you after he put 3k rounds through it and told you it functions perfectly?
https://youtu.be/0Z353BT6I18?t=1067
Just saying, there are some proficient people out there when it comes to craftsmanship.

At the end of the day, it's the call of the owner of the weapon. We gotta be responsible for our own decision and repercussions of those decisions, but from a legal perspective, there is nothing wrong with an 80% vs any other pistol that has a serial number on it.

when you build any gun IMO, you learn so much about the platform. Putting together an ar is no big deal, but the first time you do it, you learn what you did not know before. building a p80 is a great experience as you learn more about the weapon that if you just bought it. Your first one might be kind of lose, if you don't follow the instructions or if you aren't technically proficient, but you will definitely learn something. And if you build more than one, you can take what you learned and really build something hella nice and as reliable as anything from the store.
I actually like the engineering for the front rails of the p80 better than the glock.

would you rather have a hi-point or a p80? Just kidding, just kidding.

randomuser said:

...
Look, I'm not the most experienced, I'm not the least experienced either. If people from my unit saw me posting up mos #s etc etc to try and measure penises on the internet to validate my opinions on a gun it still does not answer the question that was posed by the person asking about p80, but as an operator I can answer your last questions that you posed.
....

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To be fair, he didn't share his background (not really his style unless he's familiar with the poster). I did. And I did so to give context to his earlier response because I knew that you're new in posting here so might not know all of the gang, their interests, their biases, etc. I think he has a cumulative >30-yr work resume that involved firearms, and as I said, after pestering my friend about his round count, that I remember to be north of 500k. Mine is probably in the 5-10k region, lol. I have strong opinions, nonetheless.

As per home built firearms, of course there will be variability in outcome between different people using a kit as they might customize differently, modify differently, etc -vs- a factory firearm that emerges from a standardized manufacturing process. Obviously, the simpler the build kit, the more consistent the outcome - and one which better replicates the performance of substituted parts with manufacturer parts (e.g. the third-party 80% frame and its interaction with the OEM slide), might be indistinguishable from the real thing. I think 80% builds are a great thing, for many reasons. The point about the inherent modularity of some firearm platforms that doesn't detract from their function is a good one.



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fidelity said:

To be fair, he didn't share his background (not really his style unless he's familiar with the poster). I did. And I did so to give context to his earlier response because I knew that you're new in posting here so might not know all of the gang, their interests, their biases, etc. I think he has a cumulative >30-yr work resume that involved firearms, and as I said, after pestering my friend about his round count, that I remember to be north of 500k. Mine is probably in the 5-10k region, lol. I have strong opinions, nonetheless.

As per home built firearms, of course there will be variability in outcome between different people using a kit as they might customize differently, modify differently, etc -vs- a factory firearm that emerges from a standardized manufacturing process. Obviously, the simpler the build kit, the more consistent the outcome - and one which better replicates the performance of substituted parts with manufacturer parts (e.g. the third-party 80% frame and its interaction with the OEM slide), might be indistinguishable from the real thing. I think 80% builds are a great thing, for many reasons. The point about the inherent modularity of some firearm platforms that doesn't detract from their function is a good one.



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I didn't mean to be offensive when I posted. I just posed a direct question and the answer was avoided and experience brought up in place of a legitimate and direct answer to the question. Apologies if I came off abrasive. Sometimes its not as easy to get a point across in text as it is with words and tonality etc....

Tbh,I think everyone in here has strong opinions. At least I hope so. 2a needs it or else 2a will go away.

Nothing offensive inferred. As mentioned, I responded to give context early on - and that's because you've made a positive impression in other threads - otherwise would have saved the electrons. Now where is that beer emoji ... ahh, here ...

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I've built none. Plenty here have and there is discussion on issues. If you're looking for a technical discussion, I'm not your guy.

Someone making a home made pistol will never be as good and trust worthy as one coming off an assembly line from a popular manufacturer.

Again. Someone who builds an 80 is a hobbyist, an amateur who is not in the business of firearm manufacturing. And that's fine for a range gun. Sorry if you for your feelings hurt from someone who wouldn't trust his (others' lives) to a home made parts kit.
My round count has nothing to do with a home made gun. But, when you get your 80 builds shooting reliably into the hundreds of thousands of rounds over a 25 year period, like a Sig or Glock(as is my experience)then you have something. But I don't see a hobbyist torture testing their bargain basement builds with 10s of thousands of rounds doing reliability checks.

Why trust your life to something home made when you can spend another 100 bucks on something from a manufacturer that's been built and tested to extremes that militaries and police agencies purchase for their use?
Build your 80s prepping for shtf confiscation. Not for protecting the life of you or your family.

But I've always said this. It's your shoot, shoot it the way you do.

Bigfoot21075 said:

I REALLY wish people would stop saying that. It is illegal to have a non voluntary gun registration in the United States. By continually talking about gun registries as if they are already a thing is a very bad idea. It lessens the flags thrown for the upcoming time when they really do begin to demand a gun registry.

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Agreed. Good point.

80% guns are not "homemade" guns. They are only assembled at home. The parts are all made in a factory; sometimes in the same factory that makes the "real gun". Properly assembled the 80% should be as reliable as the factory gun. That being said, I would still choose my Sig over an 80% build if it came down to it.

randomuser said:

If I had built a p80, tested it a few thousand times, never had a problem with it and had to decide between taking that p80 I built and tested vs an hk from the box, what would I pick.
The tested weapon.

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That was my point in post # 16.

Blaster229 said:

Someone making a home made pistol will never be as good and trust worthy as one coming off an assembly line from a popular manufacturer.

Build your 80s prepping for shtf confiscation. Not for protecting the life of you or your family.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. It's all about the trade-offs.