Office of Administrative Hearings -Tight Deadlines

EdHershon · Jan 27, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
So, if I'm understanding , OAH has strict deadline to have hearing , but is totally open ended to make a ruling ?

They have 90 days to issue a ruling on the case.

ras_oscar · Jan 28, 2019

I have no problem with tight deadlines as long as the rules are applied to both parties fairly. After all a judge is supposed to be an impartial arbiter of the law. Would be interesting to see what would happen if the appeal date and time came up and MSP failed to show up. I assume when MSP is called as a witness, if the fail to appear their input is not considered in deciding the case. Yes?

CrueChief · Jan 28, 2019

ras_oscar said:
I have no problem with tight deadlines as long as the rules are applied to both parties fairly. After all a judge is supposed to be an impartial arbiter of the law. Would be interesting to see what would happen if the appeal date and time came up and MSP failed to show up. I assume when MSP is called as a witness, if the fail to appear their input is not considered in deciding the case. Yes?

They'd probably make a sub-station in the building to prevent no shows.

welder516 · Jan 28, 2019

I wonder what will happen if the MSP-LD provide no information on why they appealed and continue to with-hold information so you can not have time to mount a strong case against them .

Their game = Their rules

Is there anyone willing to smack their Pee-Pee if they play fast and loose ??? that is the million dollar question .

ras_oscar · Jan 28, 2019

welder516 said:
I wonder what will happen if the MSP-LD provide no information on why they appealed and continue to with-hold information so you can not have time to mount a strong case against them .

Their game = Their rules

Is there anyone willing to smack their Pee-Pee if they play fast and loose ??? that is the million dollar question .

My understanding is there are procedures to remove sitting judges that don't follow the rules. Does the administrative hearing officer (judge?)fall under those same rules?

welder516 · Jan 28, 2019

ras_oscar said:
My understanding is there are procedures to remove sitting judges that don't follow the rules. Does the administrative hearing officer (judge?)fall under those same rules?

The state has multiple agencies , two will be involved with the hearing the court and the MSP , if one or both don't provide information and the other say no problem where does that leave the permit holder ??

In other words will they just cover each others asses in a low profile way and say ohh we messed up we will make it right and then drag this chit on for even longer .

EdHershon · Jan 28, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
So, after attending the last HPRB meeting, the MSP said that as a matter of practice, they intimidate business owners into rescinding their support for concealed carry of their employees. Additionally the Vice Chairman read the law and it states that the records of the investigation are to be turned over to the HPRB, but they responded that the law didn't say they had to turn over "ALL" records, I doubt there will be such a thing as a fair hearing.

An argument could be made that the Troopers and/or investigators and the agency itself is conducting the unauthorized practice of law. The government has no responsibility to tell an employer what "may" happen. That is bordering on practicing law at the least if not outright coercion.

EdHershon · Jan 28, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
So, if I'm understanding , OAH has strict deadline to have hearing , but is totally open ended to make a ruling ?

No! The ruling has to be issued within 90 days of the last date of a hearing.

EdHershon · Jan 28, 2019

welder516 said:
I wonder what will happen if the MSP-LD provide no information on why they appealed and continue to with-hold information so you can not have time to mount a strong case against them .

Their game = Their rules

Is there anyone willing to smack their Pee-Pee if they play fast and loose ??? that is the million dollar question .

I plan to smack their schmeckle! That is what I get paid for.

Since this is so new to all of us, we are just taking stabs in the dark. The first cases are coming up for hearings now, so hopefully, there will be someone this week who will post here what happened.

Bob A · Jan 28, 2019

EdHershon said:
An argument could be made that the Troopers and/or investigators and the agency itself is conducting the unauthorized practice of law. The government has no responsibility to tell an employer what "may" happen. That is bordering on practicing law at the least if not outright coercion.

Can an applicant record the meeting with MSP in order to document possible coercion?

Biggfoot44 · Jan 28, 2019

Once upon a time I waited 119 days for somthing "required " in 7 days . And almost a year for somthing " required" in 90 days . Most of the HPRB cases are 7-10 months old .

The usual Md Gov't procedures are " We're busy . Go away, we'll get back to you later " .

welder516 · Jan 28, 2019

It serves them well to have delays , if there is one year to a year and half delay, well that is halfway to the next permit renewal and the next restriction .

Schipperke · Jan 28, 2019

welder516 said:
I wonder what will happen if the MSP-LD provide no information on why they appealed and continue to with-hold information so you can not have time to mount a strong case against them .

Their game = Their rules

Is there anyone willing to smack their Pee-Pee if they play fast and loose ??? that is the million dollar question .

They appealed because they were overturned by HPRB. There is really nothing remarkable about that. What may raise some concern is if the OAH hearings sustain MSP's decisions at the same rate HPRB is overturning them.
TBD.

Biggfoot44 said:
Once upon a time I waited 119 days for somthing "required " in 7 days . And almost a year for somthing " required" in 90 days . Most of the HPRB cases are 7-10 months old .

The usual Md Gov't procedures are " We're busy . Go away, we'll get back to you later " .

Yep, that's reality I've experienced as well. These OAH cases are probably not very difficult for an ALJ, so 90 days may be no issue.

SCV/SAR Patriot · Jan 28, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
Once upon a time I waited 119 days for somthing "required " in 7 days . And almost a year for somthing " required" in 90 days . Most of the HPRB cases are 7-10 months old .

The usual Md Gov't procedures are " We're busy . Go away, we'll get back to you later " .

Same, when I purchased the last of any regulated firearms I’ll ever purchase in this state circa 2013.

PJDiesel · Jan 28, 2019

Bob A said:
Can an applicant record the meeting with MSP in order to document possible coercion?

I suppose if you make them aware of the recording and they agree.

Reminds me of the crazy BS one guy in California went through...

The way this guy is treated by some of these public officials is right up there with a few of Maryland's Finest.

[YT]-wRgjsSHaGE[/YT]

Biggfoot44 · Jan 28, 2019

It's probably not complex matters for the ALJ . But difficulty doesn't have to do with waiting times .

eruby · Jan 28, 2019

I believe the OAH put in an order for six gross of shineboxes

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