Delegate Dumais working on bill to ban 80% firearms

randomuser · Jan 25, 2019

in the example above, if a crowd of 70k as was mentioned, who has solidarity for their cause allows a group of even 100 officers to arrest a single person the crowd following the constitution has failed.

I think that is the point that Dense Rifle was trying to make.

phrased another way, if a crowd of 70,000 allows a single officer to make an illegal arrest the crowd has failed and ultimately has no freaking clue why they are there in the first place.

This is the lack of solidarity that I speak of. Unfortunately, you don't see alot of it in the civilian world. The last place I knew it was when I served.

Never in front, never behind, always beside. something i haven't seen in years unfortunately.
When you see that saying lived out in the civilian world, you can amass a 70k crowd and have a result. Until then, you would only have individuals arrested one by one until everyone disbursed.

The issue is that there is not a "unit", but instead a bunch of individuals who are on their own program.
ask one man to lift a 500 pound rock and move it 20 feet. He will fail.
ask a 6 man team to do the same and they have the ability to ask if you want it moved 40 feet insead.
only in solidarity can you accomplish your goals.

^^^^^the above is all hogwash . That is not how you go about change.

the real solution is to donate more money to lobbyists, political groups and congressmen who we feel might support us and follow it up with strongly worded emails and phone calls. This is the solution we have not yet tried that could give the change we need.

Mark75H · Jan 25, 2019

Doesn't MD's protest law prohibit carrying any and all firearms? There's your problem, its declared a protest and the guns are forbidden

Hawkeye · Jan 25, 2019

Mark75H said:
Doesn't MD's protest law prohibit carrying any and all firearms? There's your problem, its declared a protest and the guns are forbidden

MD CR 4-208 prohibits carrying a firearm within 1,000 feet of a "demonstration in a public place," but only after you've been told by a LEO that there is a demonstration and that you have to leave. There are particulars of definitions, but that's the gist.

(2) A person may not have a firearm in the person's possession or on or about the person at a demonstration in a public place or in a vehicle that is within 1,000 feet of a demonstration in a public place after:

(i) the person has been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration is occurring at the public place; and

(ii) the person has been ordered by the law enforcement officer to leave the area of the demonstration until the person disposes of the firearm.

(c) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 1 year or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both.

randomuser · Jan 25, 2019

I hope Maryland law doesn't declare 30 round mags forbidden or we will all have to turn them in right?

Hawkeye · Jan 25, 2019

randomuser said:
I hope Maryland law doesn't declare 30 round mags forbidden or we will all have to turn them in right?

That would depend entirely on how the law is written.

WeaponsCollector · Jan 25, 2019

randomuser said:
I hope Maryland law doesn't declare 30 round mags forbidden or we will all have to turn them in right?

Turn them in like how New Jersey turned them in.

randomuser · Jan 25, 2019

WeaponsCollector said:
Turn them in like how New Jersey turned them in.

I applaud those who dont comply and keep their magazines in their house in hiding but a true win would be to FORCE the politicians to change the law that makes having them illegal.

Rack&Roll · Jan 25, 2019

randomuser said:
I applaud those who dont comply and keep their magazines in their house in hiding but a true win would be to FORCE the politicians to change the law that makes having them illegal.

What kind of “FORCE” do you have in mind?

Not_an_outlaw · Jan 26, 2019

fabsroman said:
There is NO short term plan that is going to provide instant gratification. It is kind of like the gun control game that is being played. They are whittling away at us little by little. Death by 1,000,000 cuts is what they are doing.

That is essentially what we need to do. We need to get more and more people involved in the shooting sports and involved in home/self defense. Short of a complete catastrophe that reduces government to pretty much nothing, the only way gun control goes away is by slowly getting more and more people involved in this.

That's certainly part of the plan, but you need to be active and take back your rights. People need to go out and be seen. That includes all possible venues. I get out at something at least once a week. Either a HPRB meeting, Man-up Mondays, Legislative testimony, NRA rally, Frosh Ice Cream Social, MSI Booth, etc. People need to understand that without in your face demanding of your rights, you're just not going to have any rights. It's that simple. The NRA, GOA, NAGR, cannot do it own their own without active participation.

I look forwarding to seeing you at some of these events.

I'm a bit surprised at your attack on AOB. He is active. Your list is certainly helpful, but I don't see a physical presence, only donating money. That's only half what is required.

fabsroman · Jan 26, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
That's certainly part of the plan, but you need to be active and take back your rights. People need to go out and be seen. That includes all possible venues. I get out at something at least once a week. Either a HPRB meeting, Man-up Mondays, Legislative testimony, NRA rally, Frosh Ice Cream Social, MSI Booth, etc. People need to understand that without in your face demanding of your rights, you're just not going to have any rights. It's that simple. The NRA, GOA, NAGR, cannot do it own their own without active participation.

I look forwarding to seeing you at some of these events.

I'm a bit surprised at your attack on AOB. He is active. Your list is certainly helpful, but I don't see a physical presence, only donating money. That's only half what is required.

Who is AOB and how the heck am I attacking anybody?

However, now that you have decided to make it actually personal......

What I am sick and tired of hearing is how everybody isn't doing enough. If I donated $1,000,000, would that be more than enough to take care of me being physically absent from "events"? Do you even know what others are doing? Do you know how often I speak to Warren Miller, Trent Kittleman, and Gail Bates? You don't, but you assume I don't just because you have not seen it with your own two eyes. Because I do not attend the same events that you attend, you think I am not doing enough to regain a lot of rights that were lost before I was even old enough to vote.

Nobody knows what the other person does, but so many on here are quick to judge and condemn. That right there is where I lose my appetite for a lot of this. I was at the Kolbe hearing in the US District Court. I believe you were there too. I could count the number of 2nd Amendment supporters on my fingers. Removing my shoes was not necessary. I helped at a single MSI booth and it certainly wasn't my cup of tea.

I was in favor of the referendum on FSA2013, but that would have been money pissed away according to the powers that be. Nah, we needed to fight them in court for our "God given rights". Well, how much money was pissed away there? How much money has been pissed away with the rapid fire trigger device matter? Guess we shall see if we fair any better in the 4th Circuit this go round versus the assault weapon/standard cap mag ban litigation. Whatever happened to the HQL litigation? My only hope for Maryland is that Trump gets to appoint another SCOTUS justice and something extremely relevant 2nd Amendment wise makes it to SCOTUS. I would love to see another Heller during my lifetime.

First and foremost, you will not see me at a lot of events for another 4 years because I am the primary care giver for my kids and it will be another 4 years before the youngest is in kindergarten. Next, I don't necessarily agree with some of the stuff going on, so I will do things my way even when I have additional time on my hands.

You do things your way, I'll do things my way. We will just have to agree to disagree on our methodology. I believe that getting people to participate in shooting, etc. is a good way to get our support up. You believe that being in our reps' faces, attending HPRB meetings, attending Man Up Mondays, etc. is the best way. So be it. You spend your time fighting this how you deem fit and I will spend my time fighting this how I deem fit. 3,000 people showed up to testify regarding FSA2013, testimony went into the wee hours of the night, and FSA2013 was passed anyway. Albeit, a watered down version, but passed anyway.

Some day, you might be able to be a little less judgmental, especially when you have absolutely no idea what anybody else has done other than the fact that you have not seen them at the same functions you have been at.

Wish I could say that I am surprised that a thread about 80% firearms and any potential bill related thereto has resulted in this ridiculous side track, but I'm not surprised in the least bit. Too many are too quick to lay the blame on everybody else.

Not_an_outlaw · Jan 26, 2019

fabsroman said:
Who is AOB and how the heck am I attacking anybody?

However, now that you have decided to make it actually personal......

What I am sick and tired of hearing is how everybody isn't doing enough. If I donated $1,000,000, would that be more than enough to take care of me being physically absent from "events"? Do you even know what others are doing? Do you know how often I speak to Warren Miller, Trent Kittleman, and Gail Bates? You don't, but you assume I don't just because you have not seen it with your own two eyes. Because I do not attend the same events that you attend, you think I am not doing enough to regain a lot of rights that were lost before I was even old enough to vote.

Nobody knows what the other person does, but so many on here are quick to judge and condemn. That right there is where I lose my appetite for a lot of this. I was at the Kolbe hearing in the US District Court. I believe you were there too. I could count the number of 2nd Amendment supporters on my fingers. Removing my shoes was not necessary. I helped at a single MSI booth and it certainly wasn't my cup of tea.

I was in favor of the referendum on FSA2013, but that would have been money pissed away according to the powers that be. Nah, we needed to fight them in court for our "God given rights". Well, how much money was pissed away there? How much money has been pissed away with the rapid fire trigger device matter? Guess we shall see if we fair any better in the 4th Circuit this go round versus the assault weapon/standard cap mag ban litigation. Whatever happened to the HQL litigation? My only hope for Maryland is that Trump gets to appoint another SCOTUS justice and something extremely relevant 2nd Amendment wise makes it to SCOTUS. I would love to see another Heller during my lifetime.

First and foremost, you will not see me at a lot of events for another 4 years because I am the primary care giver for my kids and it will be another 4 years before the youngest is in kindergarten. Next, I don't necessarily agree with some of the stuff going on, so I will do things my way even when I have additional time on my hands.

You do things your way, I'll do things my way. We will just have to agree to disagree on our methodology. I believe that getting people to participate in shooting, etc. is a good way to get our support up. You believe that being in our reps' faces, attending HPRB meetings, attending Man Up Mondays, etc. is the best way. So be it. You spend your time fighting this how you deem fit and I will spend my time fighting this how I deem fit. 3,000 people showed up to testify regarding FSA2013, testimony went into the wee hours of the night, and FSA2013 was passed anyway. Albeit, a watered down version, but passed anyway.

Some day, you might be able to be a little less judgmental, especially when you have absolutely no idea what anybody else has done other than the fact that you have not seen them at the same functions you have been at.

Wish I could say that I am surprised that a thread about 80% firearms and any potential bill related thereto has resulted in this ridiculous side track, but I'm not surprised in the least bit. Too many are too quick to lay the blame on everybody else.

Ignoring you.

randomuser · Jan 26, 2019

Rack&Roll said:
What kind of “FORCE” do you have in mind?

I mentioned it in a couple of other posts.

1. write strongly worded letters
2. call and email your politicians

the one that could change the most
3. boycott
take away money from people who need money to survive (pick anti 2a companies and their supporters) and you have a much louder voice to speak with because you would force people to listen.

groups have literally shut down banks, crashed markets and put businesses under by boycotting. But you need solidarity to do that.

The boxes are:
1. soap box
2. ballot box
3. jury box
3.5 **money box (boycot)
4. cartridge box

1. soap box...Doesn't work. You aren't gong to change the mind of Pelosi, this one is out

2. ballot box...What happens when 51% of the population becomes dependant on the state? Your 49% wont even matter. Use MD as an example.

3. jury box...this is a good one, nullification is great, and even if you can't get that, you can get a hung jury, the only problem is that the defendant goes broke playing the states legal game (the state has unlimited funds for lawyers, do you?)

3.5 **money box (boycot)....I think this one has not yet been tried on a large scale with solidarity, but would be very forceful. Like workers going on a strike or a walkout. It forces your voice to be heard.

4. cartridge box...

so it's really the 5 boxes IMO. How loud a voice could you make by having no, and I mean no discretionary spending for 3 months? You want our money back, remove that law. If not, I stop my investments in the stock market. As 1 person saying that you are nothing. With a large % of the population, you can force the change you demand.

Different levels, but no different than a "walk out" or "strike" or "sit in". You just need enough solidarity.

What are your thoughts?

fabsroman · Jan 26, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
Ignoring you.

lol - you reviving the "I put him on ignore" stuff, or just telling me you are ignoring me by responding to my post? Then again, if you really were ignoring me, you wouldn't have responded at all.

Hey now, I'm ignoring you too .............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Psych!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know you are, but what am I.

I get to go to bed with a smile on my face.

So, back to important stuff, like whether Dumais or anybody else has actually proposed an 80% bill yet.

Dingo3 · Jan 26, 2019

teratos said:
I show up. I try to get other people to show up. A lot of us do. Maryland has always had a problem with turn out. The libs in the GA have a big majority, and there is no perceived threat to that.

I agree that they see no perceived threat. A few (or more) years ago Dumais was on the Chris Core show when he was still on WMAL (5 cars, yes I track time by vehicles, ago so it was a while back) and I called in to try and use logic about the Second. She was having no part of it and basically said: “we can do what we want with gun laws”

Not_an_outlaw · Jan 26, 2019

randomuser said:
I mentioned it in a couple of other posts.

1. write strongly worded letters
2. call and email your politicians

the one that could change the most
3. boycott
take away money from people who need money to survive (pick anti 2a companies and their supporters) and you have a much louder voice to speak with because you would force people to listen.

groups have literally shut down banks, crashed markets and put businesses under by boycotting. But you need solidarity to do that.

The boxes are:
1. soap box
2. ballot box
3. jury box
3.5 **money box (boycot)
4. cartridge box

1. soap box...Doesn't work. You aren't gong to change the mind of Pelosi, this one is out

2. ballot box...What happens when 51% of the population becomes dependant on the state? Your 49% wont even matter. Use MD as an example.

3. jury box...this is a good one, nullification is great, and even if you can't get that, you can get a hung jury, the only problem is that the defendant goes broke playing the states legal game (the state has unlimited funds for lawyers, do you?)

3.5 **money box (boycot)....I think this one has not yet been tried on a large scale with solidarity, but would be very forceful. Like workers going on a strike or a walkout. It forces your voice to be heard.

4. cartridge box...

so it's really the 5 boxes IMO. How loud a voice could you make by having no, and I mean no discretionary spending for 3 months? You want our money back, remove that law. If not, I stop my investments in the stock market. As 1 person saying that you are nothing. With a large % of the population, you can force the change you demand.

Different levels, but no different than a "walk out" or "strike" or "sit in". You just need enough solidarity.

What are your thoughts?

IMHO, they have to see us as a threat to their "peaceful enjoyment." We need to spend more money and more time. It doesn't take more than a few people at each event. I believe that knowing we are going to show up and call them out on their BS is going to get their attention. Show their constituents how their real aim is power, not service. Show them how gun control is racist. Point out that their efforts are leading down a socialist path.
Letters are just ignored, but I'm still writing them.

Art3 · Jan 26, 2019

fabsroman said:
What I am sick and tired of hearing is how everybody isn't doing enough.

It does really sound like we're being scolded for sittin' around pickin' our toes this whole time, doesn't it :sad20:

And I still have yet to hear a specific plan of what we can do better, as an individual. It seems like a lot of philosophy and "do stuff" generic motivational speaking...

fabsroman said:
You do things your way, I'll do things my way. We will just have to agree to disagree on our methodology.

NEVER!!!

(I know, I know...technically, it's the wrong picture for what I was trying to say...but it looks better)

Art3 · Jan 26, 2019

Rack&Roll said:
What kind of “FORCE” do you have in mind?

This is what we are dying to hear! Give us a specific target, plan of attack, and rules of engagement, and we're on it...but we need tactical specifics, not strategic philosophy. It's fine and dandy to say, "Go show those politicians that you aren't happy!" Uhhh...ok.... :shrug:

It's a lot more immediately actionable when Rack says, "Go hold this sign up over there!" Yes Sir! :mdpatriot

:

randomuser said:
I mentioned it in a couple of other posts.

1. write strongly worded letters
Done.
2. call and email your politicians
Done.
the one that could change the most
3. boycott
take away money from people who need money to survive (pick anti 2a companies and their supporters) and you have a much louder voice to speak with because you would force people to listen.
Done. Just ask Dicks, Walmart, Square and the Salvation Army.
groups have literally shut down banks, crashed markets and put businesses under by boycotting. But you need solidarity to do that.

The boxes are:
1. soap box
2. ballot box
3. jury box
3.5 **money box (boycot)
4. cartridge box

1. soap box...Doesn't work. You aren't gong to change the mind of Pelosi, this one is out
Shouldn't we try to change the minds of voters? Pelosi is not in my district anyway.
2. ballot box...What happens when 51% of the population becomes dependant on the state? Your 49% wont even matter. Use MD as an example.
I don't understand how this is actionable
3. jury box...this is a good one, nullification is great, and even if you can't get that, you can get a hung jury, the only problem is that the defendant goes broke playing the states legal game (the state has unlimited funds for lawyers, do you?)
I was called for Jury Duty, but it was a traffic case

3.5 **money box (boycot)....I think this one has not yet been tried on a large scale with solidarity, but would be very forceful. Like workers going on a strike or a walkout. It forces your voice to be heard.
Who else are we supposed to boycott? The Democratic Party? Dumais? MDA? Bloomburg? I've (we've) been boycotting them for quite a while, but I don't think they've noticed.
4. cartridge box...

so it's really the 5 boxes IMO. How loud a voice could you make by having no, and I mean no discretionary spending for 3 months? You want our money back, remove that law. If not, I stop my investments in the stock market. As 1 person saying that you are nothing. With a large % of the population, you can force the change you demand.
I don't understand this. I have no money in the stock market. I live pretty much paycheck to paycheck with a minimal emergency cushion. I give to MSI and Rack's Legal Fund when I can. I used to give to NRA, but am looking for more effective alternatives for those couple of bucks. The only discretionary spending I think I have is guns and ammo...but isn't that what we're supposed to be stocking up on? (if I stop that, then I'm defacto boycotting the firearms industry) I work for a living, so it's not like I can give up paying taxes for a couple of months.
Different levels, but no different than a "walk out" or "strike" or "sit in". You just need enough solidarity.

What are your thoughts?

Mark75H · Jan 26, 2019

Dingo3 said:
I agree that they see no perceived threat. A few (or more) years ago Dumais was on the Chris Core show when he was still on WMAL (5 cars, yes I track time by vehicles, ago so it was a while back) and I called in to try and use logic about the Second. She was having no part of it and basically said: “we can do what we want with gun laws”

History pretty much proves her right. Best to remember this is her attitude and that of all of her ilk in the MD GA.

Hawkeye · Jan 26, 2019

fabsroman said:
Nobody knows what the other person does, but so many on here are quick to judge and condemn. That right there is where I lose my appetite for a lot of this.

Yup.

There is FAR too much "I do more for the cause than you, so you are worthless" internet dickswinging on this forum.

We need to all learn to work together, to let each contribute as they can, or we're never going to have any kind of cohesion. Not everyone can man an MSI booth, or go to the legislature, or whatever, but people can find ways to help as they are able.

I am also often the primary caregiver for my son due to my wife's work schedule, so I can't go out all the time. So instead, I donate money, I write letters and emails, and I spend time on the phone with legislators. I do what I can, and I refuse to criticize others who do what they can also.

Not_an_outlaw said:
Ignoring you.

That's exactly the kind of attitude we can do without. Fabs made what was a fairly thoughtful, nonaggressive post, and instead of engaging him, you get mad at him because what, he won't do things the way you want him to? That just makes no sense to me.

fabsroman · Jan 26, 2019

Defense Rifle said:
Yeah they're going to arrest all 30, 40, 50, 60, 70,000 people...

A Ravens game at full has 70,000 people show up. Have to get people to show up for their Second Amendment. Even fellow gun owners from VA, PA, NC, WV would show up in support for their fellow gun owners in Maryland in a massive rally.

Yeah ok whatever. I know what I would do in that situation. You are still thinking like a good subject. I got news for you, if you're 70,000 man strong, officers aren't doing shit. Just look at what happened in Nevada.

Problem is when you show up and are 10 men strong all open carrying your AR and wondering what happened to the other 69,900 people and their ARs as the officers are putting silver bracelets on you. Well, the other 69,990 were skeptical about the turnout and therefore worried that they might go to prison, ruin their career, watch their kids grow up while in prison, etc.

Easy to say what we should do. The devil is in the details. Heck, might as well say we should get 70,000,000 people from all over the country to show up and support the cause. So, how is that accomplished? The NRA, MSI, etc. got all of 3,000 people to show up when the politicians were taking our "assault weapons", standard capacity mags, and requiring an HQL. So, how do you get more to attend when

Delegate Dumais working on bill to ban 80% firearms

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