Red Maryland, A Hogan Admin Advocate?

danb · Sep 15, 2016

fidelity said:
Who said this? As you note, it's well within their capabilities to check hunting tags, forward this information on, and let MSP evaluate whether a prohibited person has a firearm. This sort of competence/coordination are entirely possible by the state.

As I said above, I think that an internet story about one or a handful of troopers with loads of free time has become a vast story about the MSP and the DNR coordinating and checking harvest records against criminal records, followed by the 4am swat raid.

Checking one or a hundred tags is a lot different than checking each and every tag for the nearly 100k deer harvested each year. Is it possible? Sure, but so is aliens. Likely? not really.

fidelity · Sep 15, 2016

danb said:
yeah, I am not sure I believe this part:

I find it very hard to believe that the MSP and DNR are that coordinated. "Purchasing a license" also consists of going into compass and paying money, and it is virtually instant. I highly doubt they can complete background checks that quickly. Getting a harvest confirmation is also instant. I'd bet that if it actually does happen, people are popping up on the MSP radar for other reasons.

That said, any information you give the government can be used against you and you should assume that it will be. The government is not and never shall be your friend.

And I was saying this is entirely possible.

Sure, the bulleted points about the 4am SWAT team sound hyperbolic and were possibly meant to be as a writing device, but that doesn't mean there isn't coordination between MSP and DNR. And note, the person that provided information in this particular example was Jack McCauley, not space aliens.

montoya32 · Sep 15, 2016

jpo183 said:
I listened to the show last night, yes again were they being a putz - yes.

Now only Dan can confirm the way in which he or any members he may have known about has presented themselves to the elected body.

Im simply saying that whomever was included in the tar and feathering of RM for the original article got a bit amped and over excited - which again feeds into the attention and social media play that RM enjoys.

Attention is a good thing - dont think for a second RM resents the conversation.

What it did show was that Boomstick and friends do not know how to engage in an educational conversation which spurred RM to be RM in their social media responses.

These are political junkies, they get into it all...the...time... They do not ease into a conversation when someone comes at them. They meet it head on - hence why this stupid article lead to a blow up.

Guys - it really is incredibly dumb. Anyone can see that the original article was benign and certain 2A people attacked RM for a dumb benign article.

What ensued after is fair game.

RM was not 100% accurate. They indicated that no one took issue with the Herald, which is not the fact. They also said that there was an organized attack on them and that members of the community, myself included, did not come to them and point out the inaccuracies in a cordial manner, this in fact was done and I have the proof.

They did this purely for the attention and fell way, way short of anything remotely resembling integrity. Citing an article as gospel and not recanting or correcting the record because the original article has not fessed up to being inaccurate is some of the laziest Sun-esque journalism I have every seen.

jpo183 · Sep 15, 2016

montoya32 said:
RM was not 100% accurate. They indicated that no one took issue with the Herald, which is not the fact. They also said that there was an organized attack on them and that members of the community, myself included, did not come to them and point out the inaccuracies in a cordial manner, this in fact was done and I have the proof.

They did this purely for the attention and fell way, way short of anything remotely resembling integrity. Citing an article as gospel and not recanting or correcting the record because the original article has not fessed up to being inaccurate is some of the laziest Sun-esque journalism I have every seen.

Tim the original article was regurgitating another article. MANY news outlets do this. Check AP. AP has articles that hit different sites that regurgitate it.

That was RM's point - it was NOT there opinion they are simply regurgitating an article and at the end saying something along the lines of hogan is trying his best in this anti gun state but not as fast as many would like.

That's their "editorial" comment to make the article "different".

Thats why this is ridiculous. Its not like RM is running around and saying its easy, look at the giant improvements, etc.

They simply restated an article and then got a social media blitz from 2A mad that RM did not "fact check" an already published article.

The only reason Ryan Miner did was because he saw the "attention" and took t as an opportunity to get his own attention. LOL

Media = attention

If people hit RM up and wanted a "retraction" and came off from that point - Id tell you to go pound sand too and the more you banged your drum the more I would use it as attention.

Listen any person that reads the first article (the citing of the Herald) would be like meh whatever some guys with guns and named boomstick have their panties in a twist.

In the end it hurts you not RM. They got attention and more people read them now - because believe it or not..they have good stuff and for the most part are a conservative blog. The people involved in the fire storm look like whiney overreacting backyard bobs.

Perception is everything. I know Greg and Brian would have welcomed a well penned follow up to their article explaining what really is going on INSTEAD of trying to yell at RM for bad news...which again originated from the HAGERSTOWN Herald...I am emphasizing this because Washington County is Pro 2A

Stoveman · Sep 15, 2016

jpo183 said:
Tim the original article was regurgitating another article. MANY news outlets do this. Check AP. AP has articles that hit different sites that regurgitate it.

That was RM's point - it was NOT there opinion they are simply regurgitating an article and at the end saying something along the lines of hogan is trying his best in this anti gun state but not as fast as many would like.

That's their "editorial" comment to make the article "different".

Thats why this is ridiculous. Its not like RM is running around and saying its easy, look at the giant improvements, etc.

They simply restated an article and then got a social media blitz from 2A mad that RM did not "fact check" an already published article.

The only reason Ryan Miner did was because he saw the "attention" and took t as an opportunity to get his own attention. LOL

Media = attention

If people hit RM up and wanted a "retraction" and came off from that point - Id tell you to go pound sand too and the more you banged your drum the more I would use it as attention.

Listen any person that reads the first article (the citing of the Herald) would be like meh whatever some guys with guns and named boomstick have their panties in a twist.

In the end it hurts you not RM. They got attention and more people read them now - because believe it or not..they have good stuff and for the most part are a conservative blog. The people involved in the fire storm look like whiney overreacting backyard bobs.

Perception is everything. I know Greg and Brian would have welcomed a well penned follow up to their article explaining what really is going on INSTEAD of trying to yell at RM for bad news...which again originated from the HAGERSTOWN Herald...I am emphasizing this because Washington County is Pro 2A

So if the Herald reported that it was easier to get permits because the HPRB was giving them out like candy and look what Hogan is doing for the 2A community and RM ran that same story a few days later you'd be okay with that as well?

danb · Sep 15, 2016

fidelity said:
And I was saying this is entirely possible.

Sure, the bulleted points about the 4am SWAT team sound hyperbolic and were possibly meant to be as a writing device, but that doesn't mean there isn't coordination between MSP and DNR. And note, the person that provided information in this particular example was Jack McCauley, not space aliens.

"coordination" is a matter of degree. The DNR does share info (for example, if requested, to child support enforcement). One or two anecdotes though does not make it a systemic practice worthy of hyperbolic bullet points about 4am swat raids. I am referring to the bullet points.

And: I am not actually against this by the way. LE job is to catch you breaking the law. When you get a license of any kind you are sharing information with the .gov. If you are a prohibited person hunting with a firearm, or you owe child support, speeding tickets, etc. it is incumbent on you to know the law. #1, Don't break the law. #2, if you do, exercise your constitutional right to remain silent. The gov cannot force you to self-report your own criminal activity.

jpo183 · Sep 15, 2016

Stoveman said:
So if the Herald reported that it was easier to get permits because the HPRB was giving them out like candy and look what Hogan is doing for the 2A community and RM ran that same story a few days later you'd be okay with that as well?

No that would be foolish but that is not what happened. A certified firearms trainer made the statements. That would be considered a credible source.

fidelity · Sep 15, 2016

danb said:
"coordination" is a matter of degree. The DNR does share info (for example, if requested, to child support enforcement). One or two anecdotes though does not make it a systemic practice worthy of hyperbolic bullet points about 4am swat raids. I am referring to the bullet points.

And: I am not actually against this by the way. LE job is to catch you breaking the law. When you get a license of any kind you are sharing information with the .gov. If you are a prohibited person hunting with a firearm, or you owe child support, speeding tickets, etc. it is incumbent on you to know the law. #1, Don't break the law. #2, if you do, exercise your constitutional right to remain silent. The gov cannot force you to self-report your own criminal activity.

I dunno. I think people shouldn't break the law of course, but in this example, where laws have changed and persons that were not previously prohibited have become prohibited ex post facto and were unaware, I agree with the writer that many of these might be low hanging fruit, and confiscating their hunting rifles doesn't further public safety. If this is more than a one off, and significant resources are being spent to ferret out these individuals and grab their guns (the point that neither you or I are sure about), I think it's theater with a return diminished long ago.

danb · Sep 15, 2016

fidelity said:
I dunno. I think people shouldn't break the law of course, but in this example, where laws have changed and persons that were not previously prohibited have become prohibited ex post facto and were unaware, I agree with the writer that many of these might be low hanging fruit, and confiscating their hunting rifles doesn't further public safety. If this is more than a one off, and significant resources are being spent to ferret out these individuals and grab their guns (the point that neither you or I are sure about), I think it's theater with a return diminished long ago.

Hard to to say. Often there more to the story than "hey I did not know."

I think that if there were significant resources being spent either a) we would have seen a press release about the amazing success and all the guns being confiscated, so that they could get even more money and resources, or b) the effort has not amounted to very much and is a wasted effort.

Stoveman · Sep 15, 2016

jpo183 said:
No that would be foolish but that is not what happened. A certified firearms trainer made the statements. That would be considered a credible source.

And that's the problem with one source news stories, the Herald story was just as wrong as my hypothetical and puts the administration in a bad position. RM running with a false story just added to the mess.

danb · Sep 15, 2016

jpo183 said:
No that would be foolish but that is not what happened. A certified firearms trainer made the statements. That would be considered a credible source.

Stoveman said:
And that's the problem with one source news stories, the Herald story was just as wrong as my hypothetical and puts the administration in a bad position. RM running with a false story just added to the mess.

There was a thread on this when the story ran. The certified firearms trainer was selling training. I would not call that a credible source.

Also, RM is trying to give Hogan credit for Kolbe. Even if we win the lawsuit, Hogan has not done anything at all here.

Gryphon · Sep 15, 2016

Stoveman said:
And that's the problem with one source news stories, the Herald story was just as wrong as my hypothetical and puts the administration in a bad position. RM running with a false story just added to the mess.

Thank you.

Jaybeez · Sep 15, 2016

danb said:
As I said above, I think that an internet story about one or a handful of troopers with loads of free time has become a vast story about the MSP and the DNR coordinating and checking harvest records against criminal records, followed by the 4am swat raid.

Checking one or a hundred tags is a lot different than checking each and every tag for the nearly 100k deer harvested each year. Is it possible? Sure, but so is aliens. Likely? not really.

Except, those DNR records are federally funded, and expressly prohibited by law for being used like this. A law enforcement agency would have to have a legitimate case/investigation first, before investigating those records. They may not just randomly run names until they get a hit.

Im told that it was done for a while, and then stopped for this reason. And then someone else gets the same bright idea, and it starts again.

To answer someone else's question, they have monthly numbers. If the enforcement unit makes 30 seizures in May, but only 10 in June, the question isnt why did they get so many in May, but why didnt they get that many in June.

If using the DNR records was legitimate, then run them all, not just enough to make the monthly numbers.

And there is literally a warzone in Baltimore. 8 square miles of the 2nd worst homicide rate in the country. Maybe the worst in the US if you excluded the good parts of the city from that rate. 250,000 outstanding criminal warrants that havent been entered into the state or federal databases. A statewide heroin epidemic fuel by the city conisdered the heroin capital of the US.

There are much better uses of law enforcement resources.

montoya32 · Sep 15, 2016

In addition, the over reaction by RM was eye opening, immature and quite sensitive of them. I cannot speak for everyone who may have contacted them, but I know the majority of the inquiries to them were civil. To this point, they still hang their hat on an article that they took at face value and did ZERO questioning or verifying. To my knowledge, they didn't even contact those interviewed with the Herald article. That type of journalism, and I use the term lightly, would not even hack it for a school newspaper.

Edit: One this this whole sh*ts show has proven, is that the 2A community is closer and more untied than people give us credit for and RM is not part of the 2A community and doesn't have clue what is really going on.

Gryphon · Sep 16, 2016

On its face the Herald-Mail advertisement lacked any factual support. It was conclusory, and therefore demanded a basic inquiry by Red Maryland before they chose to redistribute what Red Maryland itself described as a "throw away article." If you knowingly or recklessly perpetuate spurious claims as if it were fact you should be labeled a hack. Red Maryland got caught, developed a bad case of red ass, and tried to bully its way out of an embarrassing situation. In doing so Kline demonstrated just how little integrity he and Red Maryland have. They could have manned up and been done, but Red Maryland chose to attack knowledgeable self-defense supporters with more fervor than Moms Demanding Some Action and the most zealous Anti 2A groups I know. I won't be subscribing or listening to their garbage in the future. If I want to I can turn on CNN or CNBC

Rack&Roll · Sep 16, 2016

Roger that.

Red Maryland apparently sees its mission as Show Biz--no different from "Housewives Of Anne Arundel County". Drama, drama, drama.

Except if they want to be relevant, too. In that case they owe the 2A community--which provided them with facts--an major league apology.

If they don't, they deserve a continued heapin' helping of the First Amendment.

It worked with the Hunters Coalition of Maryland awhile back.

jpo183 · Sep 16, 2016

This entire conversation is just proof why people dont take the 2A community seriously.

Not even worth continuing this conversation as it has hit levels of amazement that I had no idea could go as high as it has.

montoya32 · Sep 16, 2016

jpo183 said:
This entire conversation is just proof why people dont take the 2A community seriously.

Not even worth continuing this conversation as it has hit levels of amazement that I had no idea could go as high as it has.

I disagree. I believe that RM did more damage to their own image and reputation than any 2A advocate. Are there silly members of any community? Sure, but real "journalists" should hold themselves to a higher standard and stay above the fray. Griffith and Kline pulled a "Kamenetz" with their "we're the big dog, you're the little dog" routine.

Funny thing is, those two are the only ones who believe their blog or the Herald article. If they didn't believe it, they would not have tried to canabalize the traffic off such a amature article or they would have refuted it. At the least they would have tapped their vast source of admin insiders for the real scoop.

fidelity · Sep 16, 2016

What's the reach and impact of RM? I read RS and obviously MDS, but never previously heard of these guys until this thread (and from what I've read, won't waste time there). Just wondering should we take them seriously if stenography and b1tching and moaning are their stock and trade. Moreover it's relatively easy to interact directly with Republican candidates at the state level - even as a 2A advocate. Maybe RM, being presumed political junkies, has some inside scoop, but their sloppiness undermines their credibility (or at the very least this individual blogger's).

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

danb · Sep 16, 2016

jpo183 said:
This entire conversation is just proof why people dont take the 2A community seriously.

Not even worth continuing this conversation as it has hit levels of amazement that I had no idea could go as high as it has.

I am a huge Hogan apologist but a) Kline vastly overstated Hogan's contributions and appears to be taking credit for things like Kolbe; b) called us a CCW cult; c) did not fact check the article before running with it in the first place.

Kline proved himself to be a douche, case closed. If anything he is alienating people who will need to go to the polls when Hogan is up for re-election.

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