Open Letter to the Governor; Comments Requested

Decoy · May 24, 2007

http://progunprogressive.com/?p=493

Please post your comments on Sebastian's website as well, hes doing a good thing and needs our input/support.

Deacon51 · May 24, 2007

Looked good, either way it goes it will be a good thing. If only the letter was published in the Sun. Now, that would be great!

BenL · May 24, 2007

Good for him. I wonder if it will illicit a response?

Perhaps he should also allude to statistics that demonstrate that cities with CCW have less crime across the board than cities that forbid handguns? Just a thought...

K31 · May 24, 2007

I think the governor is going to be pissed off when he finds out that they are hassling his base constituency.

TheTruth · May 24, 2007

I don't know about this, so I am going to offer a counterpoint.

1) Why should I help this guy get a permit? He already has one. It just looks like he is trying to further his own cause. Why should I support him? Most people here DONT have one. Lets start there.
2) I have read this guys stuff before. I feel he is an arrogant guy with a huge chip on his shoulder, and sometimes misrepresents facts. I understand he is "trying to do well" but I don't appreciate the way I have read him treat other pro-gun people in Maryland.
3) No offense to others who may sit left of center, but again - this is a gun issue. Why should he get some special recognition because he is a liberal? We all fight for the same causes, write the same letters and donate to the people who can help us. I don't understand the asskissing because he is a lib.

Sorry - flame away if you wish, but even that "open letter" serves one purpose - his own.

Norton · May 24, 2007

1) Why should I help this guy get a permit? He already has one. It just looks like he is trying to further his own cause. Why should I support him? Most people here DONT have one. Lets start there.

Every average guy that gets a permit is good for the rest of us. Because our system of law is precedent based, when we all start filing the lawsuits because we get denied we can point to Sebastian and say "but you gave him one". It is not THE solution, but it is one of many solutions to a complicated legal problem,

2) I have read this guys stuff before. I feel he is an arrogant guy with a huge chip on his shoulder, and sometimes misrepresents facts. I understand he is "trying to do well" but I don't appreciate the way I have read him treat other pro-gun people in Maryland.

Sebastian is confident and it shouldn't be interpreted as arrogance. I've sat in rooms many times with him and "arrogant" is not a word i would apply to him. He "does" while the rest of us sit around and talk.

The people that Sebastian gives a hard time deserve it. There is a fairly well-established group of "spokespeople" for gun owners in this state who continuously tell us yahoo grassroots activists that we lack their political acumen to further the cause here and that we should sit back and let them take care of things. We've been following that mantra for 30-40 years and where has it gotten us?

This "establishment", for lack of a better term, seems to be threatened by mdshooters.com, MSI and Sebastian's blog because they work outside of the good old boy back slappers in Annapolis.

3) No offense to others who may sit left of center, but again - this is a gun issue. Why should he get some special recognition because he is a liberal? We all fight for the same causes, write the same letters and donate to the people who can help us. I don't understand the asskissing because he is a lib

.

Sebastian is reaching out to places where gun owners have traditionally avoided treading. Our image as a bunch of Conservative white guys works against us and we need to be welcoming any and all potential allies. Sebastian is no ideologue. He has supported Don Dwyer, crossed party lines with Giannetti and stumped for support for Jim Brochin.

Sorry - flame away if you wish, but even that "open letter" serves one purpose - his own.

With all due respect, you are simply wrong as could be. Sebastian is a model of what we should all be doing....working to change perceptions of gun owners and also getting off his ass and actually doing something.

I'd share a foxhole with him in a second.

drott · May 24, 2007

I don't know what he might have said that was offensive to conservatives, but if what he is saying is true about his activism in the community and the death threats he receives, then I definitely think he should get a permit. If me or you were regularly carrying large amounts of cash or had a violent husband/wife with a restraining order, then we could apply for a CCW and probably get one (maybe). And although ordinary citizen X would probably not get a CCW in Maryland just for living in a sh!tty neighborhood , so in that sense maybe he is asking for special treatment. But it's ridiculous and outrageous that ordinary law abiding citizens cannot get a CCW, especially under the circumstances this guy is apparently living/working under. So him asking for a CCW is very reasonable in my view, I certainly wouldn't hold it against the guy. In fact I applaud him for not just going quietly and not even bothering to request a CCW. I think everyone here would agree (politics aside) that he should have a CCW permit for the reasons mentioned. Heck, I think most of us think we should all be able to get a CCW as long we're not felons and have taken a gun safety course (and maybe pass a mental competency exam etc). Plus, in a way it might serve us well, it'll let a liberal in power know that there are some real libs out there that certainly are NOT towing the company line when it comes to gun control. That should at least make them think just a little before mindlessly signing on to whatever anti-gun legislation comes up next time.

Norton · May 24, 2007

drott illustrates a great point. Sebastian got his permit based on his work which entails financial transactions of some sort as I recall. He can be trusted to wear a firearm while carrying someone else's money but not while needing to protect his person while in his own neighborhood.

His partner in this cleanup deal is going to run for city council and stands a fair chance of winning. Further the guy is young enough that he could make a few leaps up the political ladder. How would that be for a friendly asset? A Baltimore City lib who has a firebreathing pro-2nd activist for a buddy.... :thumbsup:

Decoy · May 24, 2007

TheTruth said:
I don't know about this, so I am going to offer a counterpoint.

1) Why should I help this guy get a permit? He already has one. It just looks like he is trying to further his own cause. Why should I support him? Most people here DONT have one. Lets start there.
2) I have read this guys stuff before. I feel he is an arrogant guy with a huge chip on his shoulder, and sometimes misrepresents facts. I understand he is "trying to do well" but I don't appreciate the way I have read him treat other pro-gun people in Maryland.
3) No offense to others who may sit left of center, but again - this is a gun issue. Why should he get some special recognition because he is a liberal? We all fight for the same causes, write the same letters and donate to the people who can help us. I don't understand the asskissing because he is a lib.

Sorry - flame away if you wish, but even that "open letter" serves one purpose - his own.

Flame ON

What the F have you done for your community?

I’m a republican and I posted the link to his page because it’s important to all of us.

As for him misrepresenting facts, prove it.

Maybe you could be a little more constructive instead of making no point whatsoever. Well other than the fact that you’re too narrow minded to see past that fact that he’s a Democrat.

One last thing, what’s the address of your nonprofit Progun webpage?

smores · May 24, 2007

That letter is awesome. He should send it. However, I bet that the second section of the reply will begin with "Unfortunately..." :sad20:

However, it sounds like he has a shot. I agree, this is a step in the right direction. It might be for a special case scenario, but it's one more person (re)given the right to carry. I say "Re-given" because as we all know we already have that right, yet our state chooses to restrict it...

TheTruth · May 25, 2007

Decoy said:
Flame ON

What the F have you done for your community?

I’m a republican and I posted the link to his page because it’s important to all of us.

As for him misrepresenting facts, prove it.

Maybe you could be a little more constructive instead of making no point whatsoever. Well other than the fact that you’re too narrow minded to see past that fact that he’s a Democrat.

One last thing, what’s the address of your nonprofit Progun webpage?

Why don't you take a peek at the title of the thread YOU started, son. It seems like you love the second amendment and hate the first. You asked for comments, and I responded. I read his open letter and I have a difference of opinion. Grow up and deal with it.

What I do for my community or in my spare time is none of your business and isn't relevant to this discussion. However, I will say that I have been active every year in the pro-gun movement in this state since 1994... before blogs and the internet. That includes involvement in my personal time, my money, writing letters, making calls, etc. It has nothing to do with democrats - it has to do with supporting the people who serve your interests. So to you and the posters above think that what he does on his editorial blog is more important than anyone else on here who has "got off their butts" and tried to make a difference for our rights in this state, you are sadly mistaken. Just because he is a liberal doesn't make him any better than anyone of us who fight the good fight. In fact, it shouldn't even matter as for most of us, we are single issue voters.

Norton · May 25, 2007

Why don't you take a peek at the title of the thread YOU started, son. It seems like you love the second amendment and hate the first. You asked for comments, and I responded. I read his open letter and I have a difference of opinion. Grow up and deal with it.

Donning moderator hat: Power down there, my friend. You asked for flames, don't be surprised that you're feeling the heat. You wanted a reaction and you're getting it.

Just because he is a liberal doesn't make him any better than anyone of us who fight the good fight. In fact, it shouldn't even matter as for most of us, we are single issue voters.

Removing moderator hat: Sebastian makes no effort to say that he is "better" than anyone. He's trying to make a point that not all gun owners are middle aged, white, Republicans. It sounds, frankly, that you're down on him simply because he is a lib.

You're right that it doesn't matter one bit that he's left of center...he is a gun owner and he's out there fighting for us, so why are you making a big deal out of it. Aside from guns (and immigration incidentally), Sebastian and others like novus collectus are as far away from the majority of us politically as could be. But, as you advocate....it doesn't matter because the one issue is that we are all pro-2nd.

People like Sebastian and novus are important to our cause just as the Second Amendment Sisters, Pink Pistols, JPFO, 10th Calvary, our member Cliff, and Ken Blanchard (you do remember this post, don't you?)
http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=9958&postcount=1)

No one, Sebastian included, is making a big deal out of his liberality (did I just do a W?) when it comes to the gun issue beyond his acknowleged purpose in reaching out to those populations that we have traditionally not worked within. I applaud him for being able to put aside our differences as he works with us to reform these repressive laws.

Spot77 · May 25, 2007

Just because he is a liberal doesn't make him any better than anyone of us who fight the good fight. In fact, it shouldn't even matter as for most of us, we are single issue voters.

You're right, except that in some cases, his liberal loyalties make him more valuble to our cause at times. And THAT is why it's relevant.

Decoy · May 25, 2007

TheTruth said:
Why don't you take a peek at the title of the thread YOU started, son. It seems like you love the second amendment and hate the first. You asked for comments, and I responded. I read his open letter and I have a difference of opinion. Grow up and deal with it.

What I do for my community or in my spare time is none of your business and isn't relevant to this discussion. However, I will say that I have been active every year in the pro-gun movement in this state since 1994... before blogs and the internet. That includes involvement in my personal time, my money, writing letters, making calls, etc. It has nothing to do with democrats - it has to do with supporting the people who serve your interests. So to you and the posters above think that what he does on his editorial blog is more important than anyone else on here who has "got off their butts" and tried to make a difference for our rights in this state, you are sadly mistaken. Just because he is a liberal doesn't make him any better than anyone of us who fight the good fight. In fact, it shouldn't even matter as for most of us, we are single issue voters.

Way to River dance around the facts there Rosie, Put your money where your mouth is, how much have you given to the legislator of the month?

BenL · May 25, 2007

I think anyone getting a CCW in this state helps the rest of us.

TheTruth, this has always been a friendly place to exchange ideas. Why are you so adversarial? What's your personal beef with this guy? (... and it is personal. You're message was too angry for it not to be.) In the end, on this matter, you and he are on the same side.

HoChiWaWa · May 25, 2007

I'm pretty damn liberal on social issues, and adamant about the constitution, especially the 2nd as it gives us the ability to better defend the rest.

I like people who point out that we're not all conservative old white guys because, sadly, many people look negatively on that and we need to be reaching out across trivial political borders to defend the greater issue.

Deacon51 · May 25, 2007

If only he was a 40+ year old black WOMAN... that would be perfect!

That's what we really need, a 40 year old, black woman, that works in public service (A nurse, or teacher), lives in a ruff neighborhood, has campaigned for the Democratic party, and has a good back ground in weapons training (retired military would be great!)

Once someone like that gets a unrestricted CCW we could use it to further our own cause, or if she was refused, we could use it to draw attention to the stupid policy of only being allowed a CCW AFTER you have been assaulted.

Spot77 · May 25, 2007

That's what we really need, a 40 year old, black woman, that works in public service (A nurse, or teacher), lives in a ruff neighborhood, has campaigned for the Democratic party, and has a good back ground in weapons training (retired military would be great!)

Problem is that people like you described have been brainwashed on so many levels for so long that I think I have a better chance of meeting Jesus in hell when I die. :innocent0

BusDriver · May 25, 2007

Good for Him . I view Baltimore like I view Bagdad . Now- a -days it takes guts to get active in some of these wreched places . Unfortunatly the Political officials in this state , as i see it , will not support the citizens who step up to the plate . If these thugs come after this guy do you all think the police will be there to protect him ? No wonder people don't do more to help themselves . They get hung out to dry and left to fend for themselves . Like thowing sheep to the wolves and the sheep dogs are pened up .Just my opine .

BenL · May 29, 2007

BusDriver said:
Good for Him . I view Baltimore like I view Bagdad . Now- a -days it takes guts to get active in some of these wreched places . Unfortunatly the Political officials in this state , as i see it , will not support the citizens who step up to the plate . If these thugs come after this guy do you all think the police will be there to protect him ? No wonder people don't do more to help themselves . They get hung out to dry and left to fend for themselves . Like thowing sheep to the wolves and the sheep dogs are pened up .Just my opine .

They don't even get left to fend for themselves. Their hands are tied behind their backs first (i.e. gun laws), THEN they are left to fend for themselves.

Open Letter to the Governor; Comments Requested

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