Kind of like our current President is doing
When the Music Stops: America's Cities Exploding in Violence
- Thread starter Micktaco
- Start date
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smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,520
ummm....like...the ebt cards flashing "0's"? Are you arguing in support of bracken's article?
Rattlesnake46319
Curmidget
Lack of money to buy food = lack of food.
Smokey brought up a good point: in times of crisis, people join together with like people. Melting pot that our country is, there is still a visceral "the others" response. It's learned behavior to a degree, a white child raised by a Chinese family will identify with Chinese more than whites. It is what it is. Yes, Americans are less likely to give into that response than a tribal society such as Afghanistan, but it still exists.
In a "the bottom drops out" scenario, I believe you will see a violent response in places like Baltimore City or St Louis City. The surrounding counties, not as much. That has less to do with race rather than the residents themselves. Now, one could make the argument that the residents are primarily black and Hispanic, but it doesn't really matter. Ethnicity doesn't drive that possible response, learned behavior does.
A few questions.
So, this will only happen wherever there is a criminal, urban entitlement class? Whatever that is. Was that what happened in Argentina and Greece?
How big is that class of folks exactly? Is that everyone on an EBT/Food stamp program or just the [insert your description here] ones? If it isn't all of them, then what will the rest of them do? You know, the ones who are not criminal, urban entitlement types.
First, the populations of Argentina and Greece are not analogs of the US population. It's a faulty model to compare what has happened there to what would happen here.
Second, you need look no further than video of the LA riots to understand what that criminal entitlement class is. The fact that they happen to be black is immaterial. What matters is that they are a subset of a socio-economic group that is disproportionally represented in criminality. There are many factors that are responsible for this, but poverty, single parent households, poor education, high unemployment, violent culture, substance abuse and others factors all contribute to a willingness to engage in destructive behavior.
Does this mean everyone on foodstamps will riot?
Of course not, that's a rediculous assumption.
But a larger percentage of those rioters will be the receipients of government assistance programs due to their belonging to a lower socioeconomic class. This is not rocket science...
There are lots of middle class and wealthy black people who live in other parts of LA that didn't riot. Why? They were black afterall, right? So what was different about them?
What is different is that they weren't part of that criminal entitlement class.
Clearly, this is not about race. It's about socioeconomic status.
By the way, how many criminals are actually collecting EBT/Food stamps? Is that something they apply for. One would imagine that criminals would just take what they want and not go through all of the effort applying for a program like that. I mean, if I'm a criminal, how do I qualify exactly. Do they just give it to me because I asked?
This is an absurd question, but I'll address it anyway...
The people more likely to engage in these riots come from that group I described above. It is highly likely that these folks, because of their socioeconomic status, are already receiving various govt assistance like EBT cards.
They are not "full-time" criminals. They are criminals of opportunity, because their culture and their view of society condones it. And a riot, to them, means you can do stuff you wouldn't otherwise do and probably get away with it. Again, this is a cultural phenomena, not a racial one.
This is all so confusing!!! I'm gonna go get my tinfoil hat so i can think better!
No, it's really not all that confusing. It's quite simple actually.
But if want to continue thinking that all people are all the same, all think the same things, all react the same ways, all believe the same things, and all have the same concept of fairness, justice and sense of right vs. wrong, then you do so at your peril.
Because people are different. But it has nothing to do with their race. But that is the only factor that you seem to be capable of considering.
...
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,520
yup
and bracken says this..
It's a pragmatism thing and not a blaming of one race over another thing. An important distinction is using the term, "minority", instead of "blacks". One term denotes a subgroup of a population that often feels under-represented. The other term would suggest bracken's a bigot.
Something else that I think Bracken is 100% correct on is the inability of police to respond quickly and repeatedly to disturbances over a sustained period of time.
I have a good deal of experience watching police reponses to civil disturbances. Not just here, but in other countries. Something that is universal is the fact that it is a RESPONSE.
A reaction. An "answer" to something that has already happened. And that takes time.
The forces have to muster to the location. They need to suit up. A ops plan is diseminated. Then, when ready, they begin to move in and put down the disturbance. By this time, the riot has already gone on long enough for you to have you brains beaten out of your skull and stuck to the soles of hundreds of shoes...
So it may take a few hours to restore "calm". At that location. Using an operation that involves dozens, maybe hundreds, of officers.
Have you (with the excpetion of our combat experienced veterans here) ever been running on adrenaline for a few hours at a time? It's utterly, completely exhausting. These officers are going to be spent when it's over. Some will be injured, too.
And they likely represented a good chunk of the available force in that service area. They will be supplemented by officers from other jurisdictions, but they will be worn out too after the next riot a few miles away.
How do you expect these police forces to sustain operations like that?
They can't.
If the disturbances go on for more than a week, the departments will be incapable of mounting any real response after that. Fatigue, injuries, loss of equipment, ect will all take a toll.
I have a good deal of experience watching police reponses to civil disturbances. Not just here, but in other countries. Something that is universal is the fact that it is a RESPONSE.
A reaction. An "answer" to something that has already happened. And that takes time.
The forces have to muster to the location. They need to suit up. A ops plan is diseminated. Then, when ready, they begin to move in and put down the disturbance. By this time, the riot has already gone on long enough for you to have you brains beaten out of your skull and stuck to the soles of hundreds of shoes...
So it may take a few hours to restore "calm". At that location. Using an operation that involves dozens, maybe hundreds, of officers.
Have you (with the excpetion of our combat experienced veterans here) ever been running on adrenaline for a few hours at a time? It's utterly, completely exhausting. These officers are going to be spent when it's over. Some will be injured, too.
And they likely represented a good chunk of the available force in that service area. They will be supplemented by officers from other jurisdictions, but they will be worn out too after the next riot a few miles away.
How do you expect these police forces to sustain operations like that?
They can't.
If the disturbances go on for more than a week, the departments will be incapable of mounting any real response after that. Fatigue, injuries, loss of equipment, ect will all take a toll.
Did anyone ever consider that the folks most likely to riot are the folks with the least respect for authority and rules? The ones who believe they have the least to lose. We call them young people. Socioeconomics are not at all relevant to them. Who riots after games? Who riots at global protest events? Who riots in neighborhoods? Who gets into bar brawls and gang fights? Trust me. It isn't going to be a single mother of 3 or a senior citizen out there setting fires or flipping over cars. I seriously doubt anyone over the age of 30. FYI, those same young people aren't out there collecting food stamps.
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Rattlesnake46319
Curmidget
Nor are they the same young people with careers, mortgages, or families. Your theory that those with the least to lose will riot is sound. The age theory is not.
God help anyone who lives near a college town when this happens..........
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shortnfluffy(gummy'swife)
Active Member
God help anyone who lives near a college town when this happens..........
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Lawdy, I live between Salisbury university and
UMES.
When people are hungry, civility is gone. People are only civil when their needs are met. There may be alliances in small groups, as it is a way (real or perceived) of getting their basic needs met. This is basic human psychology. People who need something will go out looking for it. If they can take it from someone who has it already, they will try to do so. People that have food will do all they can to protect it.
The police can only handle so much. If these things happen on a wide scale, the police are ill equipped to handle that. It is not a matter of training. It is a matter of logistics. Lacking the manpower to quell every riot/flash mob. Sure the military has drones etc. but they are not equipped to handle such widespread problems either. It will be difficult to tell who the enemy is, unless people are doing something right now.
I personally think this scenario is very possible.
The police can only handle so much. If these things happen on a wide scale, the police are ill equipped to handle that. It is not a matter of training. It is a matter of logistics. Lacking the manpower to quell every riot/flash mob. Sure the military has drones etc. but they are not equipped to handle such widespread problems either. It will be difficult to tell who the enemy is, unless people are doing something right now.
I personally think this scenario is very possible.
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,520
Yeah! And they're always walking their dirty hippie feet on my lawn too!!
For realz though, bracken speciffically covered what you are saying in the essay.
of course if you looked at the video of the la riots, you certainly saw some old and some single mother's of 3 out and about. I'll post it again. Pay attention to the comments in the first part from the crowd.
"everything is free"
"koreans own that m**********"
"f da po-lice"
"there's justice in america, but not for the blacks"
Kelson1066
Ultimate Member
Considering the amount of fraud, waste, and abuse that occurs in these entitlement systems and the fact that the online application can be fudged I don't see why this would not happen. Welfare fraud to a criminal is probably an easy way to put money in their pocket similar to people who used to sell food stamps (when they were stamps) for cash at a discount. If it costs you nothing to get it and you make money from it isn't that the essence of what a lazy criminal would do?
I doubt they give it to you becuase you asked but consider that criminals may not live alone and may live with law abiding citizens who are eligible for that type of support. You add another mouth to feed to their application and their subsidies go up.
ALBY
Active Member
- Jan 5, 2008
- 652
I've read bracken's books and I read that whole article, even though I wanted to stop.
IMHO, it does not take a lot of imagination to write what Bracken wrote, especially considering his millenarian personality. This is doomer porn, plain and simple.
What i do detect here that is troublesome is that *some* people think that a reshuffling of the deck would maybe lead to them being better off. This will not be the case. If Bracken's scenario plays out even just a little bit, it would be a historical *turning point*, after which you can expect a security state and totalitarian response the likes of which the world has never seen.
IMHO, it does not take a lot of imagination to write what Bracken wrote, especially considering his millenarian personality. This is doomer porn, plain and simple.
What i do detect here that is troublesome is that *some* people think that a reshuffling of the deck would maybe lead to them being better off. This will not be the case. If Bracken's scenario plays out even just a little bit, it would be a historical *turning point*, after which you can expect a security state and totalitarian response the likes of which the world has never seen.
foxtrapper
Ultimate Member
Check out some of the other LA riot footage. I see white people and hispanics, even some asian looking people looting stores. In one video the news folks are going apeshit over the guns- "are they registered?", "omg that guy on the roof, does he have a 9mm automatic Uzi? OMG!". Put me in the time warp right there! It looked like an MP5 from what little bit I could see, semi auto civie version I'm sure.
There are also a lot more whites than blacks in America. What are the percentages of each on food stamps? I don't know, I'm just asking.
When stores run low/run out of food, maggots will try and uprise and/or loot. They will be black, white, brown, yellow and maybe other colors. But they will all be maggots.
lawrencewendall
Been There, Done That
- Oct 10, 2009
- 1,746
But is the chart saying 35% of people on food stamps are white and 22% are black, or are 35% of white people on food stamps and 22% of black people on foodstamps?
If 1000 whites out of 50 million and 900 blacks out of 2000 (NOT accurate numbers obviously) are on food stamps, there are more whites on food stamps, but a larger percentage of blacks on food stamps.
And I'll say it again, if you're a maggot looting, you're a maggot, regardless of color.
And I did not read the 144 pages of the pdf.
Half-cocked
Senior Meatbag
- Mar 14, 2006
- 23,937
Honestly, I can't remember ever seeing any incidents of the rural food-stamp class rioting in the streets. Maybe trading haymakers at redneck weddings, or giving the local sheriff a fun chase, but that's about it.
OTOH, urban riot outbreaks tend to happen pretty regularly, at least every 20-25 years or so - and we're overdue. I fully expect one if George Zimmerman is acquitted or if all charges are dropped.
OTOH, urban riot outbreaks tend to happen pretty regularly, at least every 20-25 years or so - and we're overdue. I fully expect one if George Zimmerman is acquitted or if all charges are dropped.
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