The answer boils down to two things: Common sense (you) and nonsense (MD).
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast
Member Benefits:
No ad networks! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
The answer boils down to two things: Common sense (you) and nonsense (MD).
Andras
Active Member
In 1993 I was stopped for speeding while getting a birthday present for a friend. I had a unloaded revolver in a enclosed holster locked in my glovebox since we would be shooting later. Despite being 30 miles out of my way the trooper wrote me a ticket and cut me loose.
xd40c
Business Owner-Gun Toter
After getting my CCW, MSP told me that to and from work meant just that. NO stops for gas or the supermarket would be permited.
c33m0n3y
Active Member
I think it's apples and oranges. MSP may have been clarifying your particular restrictions to carry a concealed weapon using your permit under § 5-307, but they are in no position to "interpret" what 4-203(b)(3-9) means regarding transit and stops.
In reading further, 4-203(b)(4) and (5) never state that you must begin or end your trip at home. In essence, 4-203(b)(5) is almost giving people with a "Designated Collector" or even a C&R FFL a free pass to carry an unloaded handgun anywhere as long as that individual has part of his/her collection with them to carry "from place to place" for a private showing. So always keep two unloaded guns in your car.
I also am not a lawyer.
Markp
Ultimate Member
- Dec 22, 2008
- 9,392
I think it's apples and oranges. MSP may have been clarifying your particular restrictions to carry a concealed weapon using your permit under § 5-307, but they are in no position to "interpret" what 4-203(b)(3-9) means regarding transit and stops.
In reading further, 4-203(b)(4) and (5) never state that you must begin or end your trip at home. In essence, 4-203(b)(5) is almost giving people with a "Designated Collector" or even a C&R FFL a free pass to carry an unloaded handgun anywhere as long as that individual has part of his/her collection with them to carry "from place to place" for a private showing. So always keep two unloaded guns in your car.
I also am not a lawyer.
And this is precisely what I did when I went to do a stock clinic recently. My Ruger LCP was in a case in my front seat with a magazine beside it while I was transporting my 2 M14S's to the stock clinic. I am a bonafide collector and even the handgun could be considered part of my collection.
4 more months and I move to VA, where my Texas carry permit is honored. No more of this BS to deal with.
Mark
ST19AG_WGreymon
Ultimate Member
If you need to stop, as a precaution, remove all paraphernalia of your persons that would suggest you have a firearm in your vehicle(i.e. range badge, etc.).
Actually, the MSP does get to interpret how to enforce the law.
The question is whether the prosecutor who agrees with the interpretation can convince the judge that the MSP interpretation is "reasonable" and consistent with "what the legislature intended."
Yes, you can have it on your person (while traveling).
It does not specify if where the weapon 'will' be stored during travel, so the answer by default is: Yes, you 'should' be able to have the weapon on, or about, your person while traveling (remember this does not imply concealment).
If you read the legislature is states specific places a person can be transporting their weapons to or from.
Places like gas stations, or "on the way" to a specified place are not permitted. Because.. your new route would be "from" the gas station, and "to" home (or wherever you were headed).
Being stopped in traffic (since traffic or the interstate/highway isn't a.. facility or.. 'place' ie: work/school/park/store) would still be considered 'en route' (if that is in fact what you were doing).
No i'm not a lawyer, I just read into the verbage.
"words mean things"
It does not specify if where the weapon 'will' be stored during travel, so the answer by default is: Yes, you 'should' be able to have the weapon on, or about, your person while traveling (remember this does not imply concealment).
If you read the legislature is states specific places a person can be transporting their weapons to or from.
Places like gas stations, or "on the way" to a specified place are not permitted. Because.. your new route would be "from" the gas station, and "to" home (or wherever you were headed).
Being stopped in traffic (since traffic or the interstate/highway isn't a.. facility or.. 'place' ie: work/school/park/store) would still be considered 'en route' (if that is in fact what you were doing).
No i'm not a lawyer, I just read into the verbage.
"words mean things"
Merlin
Ultimate Member
Don't you mean to ask, "has anyone tested this theory that is not in jail?"
Merlin
Ultimate Member
Respective you could not be more wrong. Try your theory out and let us know where to come visit you after your traffic stop.
First of all, the law is written in a way that creates more questions then it answers. Take the word "secured", now does secured mean in a holster with a simple snap strap? Or does secured locking mechanism? Does secured mean out of reach?
If you ask 10 LEO's this question you will get 10 different answers just on the definition of the word secured.
When I went to my F to F my trooper was telling me to him this law means in a holster, unloaded, in a zippered range bag sitting completely out of reach of anyone in the car. He went on to say it should be in the trunk if a trunk is available.
So in other words this trooper reads the Maryland law, but thinks the federal law. So if you are lucky enough to have your traffic stop by this trooper, how do you think you will make out as you explain to him how he is wrong as you tell him what you think the law allows?
TxAggie
Ultimate Member
So what's the verdict for transporting a handgun out of state? Specifically, I understand several, or many, members of MDS hold CCW licenses for other states, in fact I'm starting the process for the Florida license. You are taking the gun from one place of legal use (your home) to another place of legal use (the neighboring state where you have a legal CCW) Have there been any rulings or advisories on this?
You will need to follow FOPA when your desitination is in another state.
Threeband
The M1 Does My Talking
My understanding is that FOPA covers travel through a state. If you travel to Vermont, FOPA would cover you as you skulk nervously through New York.
I think if I go to a match in Pennsylvania, such as at York IWLA, FOPA does not apply. While in Maryland, my defense would be that I am on my way to a shooting match/ formal or informal competition/ or formal or informal practice. Nothing in the law says the exempting activity has to be in Maryland.
Once I get to Pennsylvania, my argument might be based on similar provisions in Pennsylvania law. Since I have Utah and Florida permits which are recognized in PA, I relax when I cross into PA anyway.
As for just driving out of state for no other purpose than to practice carrying with a non-resident permit, someone asked the Attorney General about that. The answer basically came down to the AG not recognizing that as valid. The AG specifically stated that your home does not count as a place of legal use, for purposes of this specific question.. I think that's wrong, but I'm not the AG. The final decision would lie with the judge and jury at your trial, but the AG would argue against your taking your gun and your Florida Permit to an out-of-state Wal Mart just to walk around.
The AG's letter was posted on this forum a year or two ago. It's BS, and it isn't quite the final word, but it is what you would be up against.
If you are only going as far as a neighboring state, I believe you want to be able to claim one of the specific enumerated exemptions listed in the law. Don't count on FOPA or your Florida permit.
I think if I go to a match in Pennsylvania, such as at York IWLA, FOPA does not apply. While in Maryland, my defense would be that I am on my way to a shooting match/ formal or informal competition/ or formal or informal practice. Nothing in the law says the exempting activity has to be in Maryland.
Once I get to Pennsylvania, my argument might be based on similar provisions in Pennsylvania law. Since I have Utah and Florida permits which are recognized in PA, I relax when I cross into PA anyway.
As for just driving out of state for no other purpose than to practice carrying with a non-resident permit, someone asked the Attorney General about that. The answer basically came down to the AG not recognizing that as valid. The AG specifically stated that your home does not count as a place of legal use, for purposes of this specific question.. I think that's wrong, but I'm not the AG. The final decision would lie with the judge and jury at your trial, but the AG would argue against your taking your gun and your Florida Permit to an out-of-state Wal Mart just to walk around.
The AG's letter was posted on this forum a year or two ago. It's BS, and it isn't quite the final word, but it is what you would be up against.
If you are only going as far as a neighboring state, I believe you want to be able to claim one of the specific enumerated exemptions listed in the law. Don't count on FOPA or your Florida permit.
Merlin
Ultimate Member
As we know it will all come down to the LEO you may encounter, but also during my FtoF when the trooper was asking me if I knew the existing laws on transporting. I told him that I did, but I also told him that sometimes when I go to the range with a friend of mine we stop for dinner after we leave the rang. I went on to tell the trooper that at dinner we both have a beer.
The trooper told me that was ok as long as I was not under the influence. Now I'm sure all troopers will not tell you that, but the trooper I was talking to did. He went on to tell me that they understand things like stopping to eat or the store between the range and home.
The trooper told me that was ok as long as I was not under the influence. Now I'm sure all troopers will not tell you that, but the trooper I was talking to did. He went on to tell me that they understand things like stopping to eat or the store between the range and home.
Merlin
Ultimate Member
I was told by a LEO that when crossing state lines you have to follow the laws of each state and/or the fed laws depending on which is more strict.
Bumping this because I had an HQL student that was arrested after for making a "stop" at Royal Farms after shooting at Freestate. Gun was in the trunk, unloaded, in an enclosed (locked) case. His charges were eventually dropped but he was told if he does it again he's going to jail. He was arrested back in January, he was just recently informed of the dropped charges. Police refuse to inform him of the steps he needs to take to get his gun back from evidence. The sad part is this was his first time going to the range with his first gun. Fortunately it didn't scare him away from exercising his rights. The day his gun rights were restored he bought an AR.
budman93
Ultimate Member
how exactly was he arrested for a cased gun in his trunk at a gas station? Cops aren't going around checking everyone's trunk every time they stop somewhere. There has to be more to this story.
The officer "saw" him leave from Freestate and drive to Royal Farms. Simply walked up and asked him "where are you coming from?" Kid said "the gun range". Officer asked "any guns in the car?". Kid was honest "yes sir. In my trunk."
Edit: in case you're not familiar with the area, RoFo is a block from Freestate and I've been warned of officers "following" people after they leave Freestate to see if they stop anywhere.
Of course, this info is all coming from the kid. But based on the documentation and the charges being dropped and having spent a lot of time talking with him before he even took the HQL class, and since the incident, I believe every word he told me.
Users who are viewing this thread
Forum statistics
Latest threads
-
-
-
-
Tennessee legislature passes bill to arm teachers; leftist lose their minds (13 Viewers)- Started by jc1240
- Replies: 35
-
-
-
Suggestions for a low powered, large objective rifle scope? (1 Viewer)- Started by E.Shell
- Replies: 16