Saiga shotguns

rob-cubed · Nov 17, 2010

No, conversion won't help with cycling issues.

S-12s all require a break-in period with high power loads. After things wear in, some will cycle bird shot fine but others will still require a little tweaking. The more problematic guns have come into the country undergassed (undersized or too few gas ports). Saiga will fix this under warranty, but it's not a tough repair for a smith or a competent home tinkerer.

Johnnyeastside · Nov 17, 2010

This calculator is super easy to use http://jobson.us/922r/

I love my new Saiga 12! I bought the conversion parts from Carolina Shooters Supply. They have conversion kits that include stocks and grips, but I pieced together my own. There are so many choices, make sure you really think about what you want the gun to be before you hit "Check Out". CSS also has very detailed conversion videos on youtube.
I've spent a lot of time on the Saiga Forums as well. There is so much great info there. After I put 100 rounds through mine, I did a little grind and polish job on some of the internals to smooth it out. I am no gunsmith, but handy with tools. This gun does require tinkering, but it's totally worth it to me. If you want to take it out of the box and just shoot it consider something else.
I'm using the V plug. I had to turn it out a full turn further than it should've been. I ended up having to drill out the gas ports, which made a big improvement. This work would be repaired under warranty, but I did it in about an hour instead of shipping my gun away.
I've learned a lot about this gun since I've had it. I'm no expert, but if you have any questions I'd be happy to help. Maybe my hours of internet searching can help you.
Point is...I love this gun.

ericoak · Nov 17, 2010

There are ways to improve cycling however, a pistol grip conversion does not. Many times the guns have less gas ports then they are supposed to , or the holes themselves are too small.

OnTarget · Nov 20, 2010

Anybody had problems with the Surefire brand high capacity magazines for Saiga shotguns?

OnTarget · Nov 20, 2010

Johnnyeastside said:
This calculator is super easy to use http://jobson.us/922r/

I love my new Saiga 12! I bought the conversion parts from Carolina Shooters Supply. They have conversion kits that include stocks and grips, but I pieced together my own. There are so many choices, make sure you really think about what you want the gun to be before you hit "Check Out". CSS also has very detailed conversion videos on youtube.
I've spent a lot of time on the Saiga Forums as well. There is so much great info there. After I put 100 rounds through mine, I did a little grind and polish job on some of the internals to smooth it out. I am no gunsmith, but handy with tools. This gun does require tinkering, but it's totally worth it to me. If you want to take it out of the box and just shoot it consider something else.
I'm using the V plug. I had to turn it out a full turn further than it should've been. I ended up having to drill out the gas ports, which made a big improvement. This work would be repaired under warranty, but I did it in about an hour instead of shipping my gun away.
I've learned a lot about this gun since I've had it. I'm no expert, but if you have any questions I'd be happy to help. Maybe my hours of internet searching can help you.
Point is...I love this gun.

Does the V-plug (the ones from MD Arms) count as a replacement for a foreign part?

boatbod · Nov 20, 2010

No, the plug isn't considered a compliance part, but the gas puck is.

OnTarget · Nov 20, 2010

boatbod said:
No, the plug isn't considered a compliance part, but the gas puck is.

Would this be what you are talking about ($25.00)?
GoGun TwisterPuc (Medium)
Manufacturer: E-Tac CNC, Inc.

Did you have any others in mind? Thanks

wilcam47 · Nov 20, 2010

post #6 tells ya what you need to make it compliant...simple stuff...I think the MD arms counts as three parts alone...

OnTarget · Nov 20, 2010

Necessary Evil said:
http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

WIKI starts with 16 foreign parts, but I thought I read the Saiga 12 has 11 foreign parts. Say what?

boatbod · Nov 20, 2010

OnTarget said:
Would this be what you are talking about ($25.00)?
GoGun TwisterPuc (Medium)
Manufacturer: E-Tac CNC, Inc.

Did you have any others in mind? Thanks

Yes, that's one. Personally I found my medium twister puck cycled less reliable than the factory puck, so I'm back on the factory one since I have some headroom in my parts count.

mackie · Nov 20, 2010

I got to shoot one at Elk Neck on the clay range last summer. It was surprizingly easy to knock down birds with and cycled smoothly.

Johnnyeastside · Nov 20, 2010

OnTarget said:
Anybody had problems with the Surefire brand high capacity magazines for Saiga shotguns?

I have one 8 round Surefire mag. I think it works fine. I have had maybe 2 or 3 shells out of 150 get hung up while feeding, but I didn't pay attention to which mag I was using. It has squared off edges that can hang up when you try to rock them in, but I spent about 10 seconds filing a bevel on each side and the go in really easy now.

I also bought the twister puck, but haven't used it yet. I want to have few hundred rounds of baseline performance before I try it.

IlikeNFA · Nov 20, 2010

Originally Posted by OnTarget View Post
Anybody had problems with the Surefire brand high capacity magazines for Saiga shotguns?

Lots of people have had problems, but the problems seem to be mainly associated with the 12-rounders...it just seems like its too much weight for it to reliably handle. Id say if you are going to buy them, stick to the 8 or 10 rounders...or go with agp...or better yet MDarms drums are on sale now, buy one (or more) of those and wait for their double stack release next year.

zombiehunter · Nov 21, 2010

IlikeNFA said:
Lots of people have had problems, but the problems seem to be mainly associated with the 12-rounders...it just seems like its too much weight for it to reliably handle. Id say if you are going to buy them, stick to the 8 or 10 rounders...or go with agp...or better yet MDarms drums are on sale now, buy one (or more) of those and wait for their double stack release next year.

Double stack?

rob-cubed · Nov 21, 2010

zombiehunter said:
Double stack?

Mike Davidson has been working on an S-12 double-stack magazine that he says is nearing the unveiling stage. Looking forward to seeing what he comes up with.

OnTarget · Nov 22, 2010

boatbod said:
Yes, that's one. Personally I found my medium twister puck cycled less reliable than the factory puck, so I'm back on the factory one since I have some headroom in my parts count.

Anybody try out the Tapco gas piston - approx. $8.50? If not, what is your favorite replacement puck?
Thanks!

OnTarget · Nov 23, 2010

Markp said:
Actually, go here: http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

Now let's think about this:

922(r) is a prohibition on assembling a rifle in violation, not possession. With that said there are 15 imported parts on the Saiga 12. If you don't convert the Saiga it's easier to run afoul of the 922(r) statute.

Converting the Saiga-12 means replacing the trigger, hammer, and disconnector. It also means replacing the buttstock. That leaves one part left to replace before you are compliant. Replacing the magazine with a drum made in the US means another 3 parts. A converted Saiga 12 with a drum should have no more than 8 parts... Replace the front furniture and you're able to run imported mags too.

It's not bad...

Mark

PS - I love, absolutely LOVE, my Saiga-12. It kicks ASS!!!

From the standpoint of doing the conversion the easiest way as to installation, how about a Tapco Intrafuse T6 Stock set ( comes with pistol grip and counts) = 2 compliant parts); also, the Tapco Intrafuse Handguard = 1 compliant part; and lastly the MD Arms 20 rd. drum magazine = 3 parts. Total US parts = 6. Isn't that enough to satisfy 922r? Or is more needed, if so, what would be the easiest part to install.
Note that I have stayed away from replacing any internal parts, hence not affecting the operation of the Saiga 12.
Thanks for any remarks.

rob-cubed · Nov 23, 2010

Yes, that would be enough make it compliant (10 foreign parts remaining). However you can only use US mags in it from there on out.

However, converting it (moving the FCG forward) is about more than adding compliance parts. It improves trigger pull and ergonomics, and makes the gun more reliable by removing extra linkage... it's how Izhmash intended it to be.

OnTarget said:
From the standpoint of doing the conversion the easiest way as to installation, how about a Tapco Intrafuse T6 Stock set ( comes with pistol grip and counts) = 2 compliant parts); also, the Tapco Intrafuse Handguard = 1 compliant part; and lastly the MD Arms 20 rd. drum magazine = 3 parts. Total US parts = 6. Isn't that enough to satisfy 922r? Or is more needed, if so, what would be the easiest part to install.
Note that I have stayed away from replacing any internal parts, hence not affecting the operation of the Saiga 12.
Thanks for any remarks.

Schwabe · Nov 23, 2010

Interesting, I never held or shot a Saiga but from the videos I can see on youtube etc, they seem kinda slow. I have Winchester SX3 with extended tube, which holds 10 +1, one less than Flannigans gun. But it is REALLY fast ...

OnTarget · Nov 23, 2010

rob-cubed said:
Yes, that would be enough make it compliant (10 foreign parts remaining). However you can only use US mags in it from there on out.

However, converting it (moving the FCG forward) is about more than adding compliance parts. It improves trigger pull and ergonomics, and makes the gun more reliable by removing extra linkage... it's how Izhmash intended it to be.

Thanks, rob-cubed and others, you've been very helpful. Regarding your US magazine comments, I think ProMag is USA, so I could use the 12's 15's or 20's, I presume.

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