Silly Things Said on Auction Sites

yellowsled · Aug 26, 2014

Atlantic Firearms.com said:
Machodoc , how is it that you exactly know they have not been used in Combat ?? These rifles came from the Balkan area & were used there then stored and sold off.

I think he was going more for documented combat, vs a gun pulled out of a storage crate after a re-arsenal.

Machodoc · Aug 26, 2014

Atlantic Firearms.com said:
Machodoc , how is it that you exactly know they have not been used in Combat ?? These rifles came from the Balkan area & were used there then stored and sold off.

yellowsled said:
I think he was going more for documented combat, vs a gun pulled out of a storage crate after a re-arsenal.

What I was going for is the fact that these were made in China in the late '50s, then shipped in about 1960 to Enver Hoxha's regime in Albania under an agreement between Mao and Hoxha. They were sent to a specific country (Albania) and not just floating around somewhere in "the Balkan area".

During that time period, Albania was not involved in ANY wars, even though they were prepared for some perceived invasion threat and had elaborate defensive positions, weapons caches, mountain bunkers, etc. There was a brief period of civil unrest in 1997, but that was hardly "combat". The Hoxha regime also had some very grim prisons, where the guards were armed with SKS rifles, and they had some second-tier rural police who also used the SKS.

So the way that I "exactly know that they were not used in combat" is that they were owned by a government/country that was not at war during the time that they owned the rifles. Given that, it's hard to make a claim that they were used "in combat" when there was no combat.

Good enough explanation? It's simply historical fact vs. marketing hype.

Now, let's play the flip side of this record: on what do you base the claim that they WERE used in combat? Would any American police firearm today be considered as having been "used in combat" because some American police are involved with the riots ... sorry ... protests ... in MO?

While I greatly appreciate your support for the group that we all enjoy so much, when a seller makes a claim that would tend to enhance the collectible value of a firearm, they should be able to back up that claim ... not challenge others to prove them wrong.

Abulg1972 · Aug 26, 2014

Machodoc said:
What I was going for is the fact that these were made in China in the late '50s, then shipped in about 1960 to Enver Hoxha's regime in Albania under an agreement between Mao and Hoxha. They were sent to a specific country (Albania) and not just floating around somewhere in "the Balkan area".

During that time period, Albania was not involved in ANY wars, even though they were prepared for some perceived invasion threat and had elaborate defensive positions, weapons caches, mountain bunkers, etc. There was a brief period of civil unrest in 1997, but that was hardly "combat". The Hoxha regime also had some very grim prisons, where the guards were armed with SKS rifles, and they had some second-tier rural police who also used the SKS.

So the way that I "exactly know that they were not used in combat" is that they were owned by a government/country that was not at war during the time that they owned the rifles. Given that, it's hard to make a claim that they were used "in combat" when there was no combat.

Good enough explanation? It's simply historical fact vs. marketing hype.

Now, let's play the flip side of this record: on what do you base the claim that they WERE used in combat? Would any American police firearm today be considered as having been "used in combat" because some American police are involved with the riots ... sorry ... protests ... in MO?

While I greatly appreciate your support for the group that we all enjoy so much, when a seller makes a claim that would tend to enhance the collectible value of a firearm, they should be able to back up that claim ... not challenge others to prove them wrong.

To much hyperbole and B.S. in a market that's already crazy.

Alphabrew · Aug 26, 2014

Machodoc said:
What I was going for is the fact that these were made in China in the late '50s, then shipped in about 1960 to Enver Hoxha's regime in Albania under an agreement between Mao and Hoxha. They were sent to a specific country (Albania) and not just floating around somewhere in "the Balkan area".

During that time period, Albania was not involved in ANY wars, even though they were prepared for some perceived invasion threat and had elaborate defensive positions, weapons caches, mountain bunkers, etc. There was a brief period of civil unrest in 1997, but that was hardly "combat". The Hoxha regime also had some very grim prisons, where the guards were armed with SKS rifles, and they had some second-tier rural police who also used the SKS.

So the way that I "exactly know that they were not used in combat" is that they were owned by a government/country that was not at war during the time that they owned the rifles. Given that, it's hard to make a claim that they were used "in combat" when there was no combat.

Good enough explanation? It's simply historical fact vs. marketing hype.

Now, let's play the flip side of this record: on what do you base the claim that they WERE used in combat? Would any American police firearm today be considered as having been "used in combat" because some American police are involved with the riots ... sorry ... protests ... in MO?

While I greatly appreciate your support for the group that we all enjoy so much, when a seller makes a claim that would tend to enhance the collectible value of a firearm, they should be able to back up that claim ... not challenge others to prove them wrong.

I would have assumed they saw combat but it's hard to argue with this

Abulg1972 · Aug 31, 2014

"guaranteed 100% correct and original WWII Russian 91/30 Mosin Nagant sniper rifle. This is a nice honest example of an original Russian arsenal built sniper, NOT an aftermarket or cobbled together gun."
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=437284262

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Abulg1972 · Oct 21, 2014

Recent exchange on the broker:

I am a licensed FFL dealer and our policy is to only ship to FFL or C&R’s
-------
My point was that this rifle can ship to anyone, license or not, because of its antique status. Lowe did not make this rifle past 1895. Anything made before 1899 is an antique under the Gun Control Act and, thus, is not a "firearm." I'd have to look in Colin Webster's book to be sure but I believe this particular rifle was made in 1892 or 1893.

On Oct 21, 2014, at 4:08 PM, Broker <broker@huronvalleyguns.com> wrote:

We would be able to ship this rifle to a C&R license if that is what you would like. We will email instructions after you win the item.

-- BEGIN MESSAGE FROM USER --
FYI, this rifle is an antique and, therefore, not a "firearm".

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatal

Machodoc · Oct 22, 2014

SKS currently on Armslist (emphasis is mine):

"First yr production (1956) made in the 1st 6 months so it was made by Russian's that were training Chinese. Solid stock with minor shrapnel marks, ,as far as function, its like firing a WWII carbine M1, they run like a Singer sewing machine. shoots great. If you never owned one, they are more accurate than Norincos. Rifle, strap, pouch, 30 rnds on strippers..."

No war. No combat. Now handling dings have become "shrapnel marks". My God.

Docster · Oct 22, 2014

Machodoc said:
SKS currently on Armslist (emphasis is mine):

"First yr production (1956) made in the 1st 6 months so it was made by Russian's that were training Chinese. Solid stock with minor shrapnel marks, ,as far as function, its like firing a WWII carbine M1, they run like a Singer sewing machine. shoots great. If you never owned one, they are more accurate than Norincos. Rifle, strap, pouch, 30 rnds on strippers..."

No war. No combat. Now handling dings have become "shrapnel marks". My God.

Holy crap!! My Chinese SKS's have TONS of shrapnel marks! I thought those marks were from being used as bludgeons when they ran out of ammo. Either way, 'used in combat/war'!! :lol2:

Machodoc · Oct 22, 2014

It gets better. Here's what he sent me when I asked how he knew they were "shrapnel marks":

"Do a google search for Chinese type 56 SKS number system, you will read the same page I read about their production, These rifles were the main battle rifle of the Viet Cong in the 60's and 70's. The NVA had AK-47's. China supplied these down the Ho Chi Minh trail, and probably got a lot of them back, which they then sold to importers in the 80's."

No stretch of imagination or assumptions being applied here!

reverendbeer · Oct 22, 2014

Machodoc said:
It gets better. Here's what he sent me when I asked how he knew they were "shrapnel marks":

"Do a google search for Chinese type 56 SKS number system, you will read the same page I read about their production, These rifles were the main battle rifle of the Viet Cong in the 60's and 70's. The NVA had AK-47's. China supplied these down the Ho Chi Minh trail, and probably got a lot of them back, which they then sold to importers in the 80's."

No stretch of imagination or assumptions being applied here!

WE ALL HAVE VIETNAM COMBAT SKSES!!!!!

Machodoc · Oct 22, 2014

reverendbeer said:
WE ALL HAVE VIETNAM COMBAT SKSES!!!!!

Yeah ... the Chinese gave them to the North Vietnamese, they were shipped down the Ho Chi Minh trail and beat to death, then--even though relationships between China and Vietnam had gone sour--the Vietnamese suddenly decided to treat the guns as a loan, so they rounded them all up (with their shrapnel marks), walked them all back up Hwy. 1, gave them back to China, who carved Albanian trench art on them and sold them to "importers".

That makes perfect sense. :lol2:

Reptile · Oct 22, 2014

I've got a six digit serial numbered Springfield Armory M1 Garand. It was produced in July 1941. CMP rebuilt it and among the parts is a bolt produced in 1952.

If and when I sell it I guess I can claim it was used in combat in two wars.

Machodoc · Nov 4, 2014

I can't tell you how much I hate to see this kind of CRAP!

http://www.armslist.com/posts/3593289/st-louis-missouri-handguns-for-sale--ejercito-argentino-model-1927-45-auto--1911-clone--for-sale

reverendbeer · Nov 4, 2014

Machodoc said:
I can't tell you how much I hate to see this kind of CRAP!

http://www.armslist.com/posts/3593289/st-louis-missouri-handguns-for-sale--ejercito-argentino-model-1927-45-auto--1911-clone--for-sale

Wh...why would you cut down a Sistema slide?

Machodoc · Nov 4, 2014

reverendbeer said:
Wh...why would you cut down a Sistema slide?

Or not only represent the gun as actually being a Sistema, but represent it as being one of the Hartford contract Colts.

[Edit: I wrote to the guy to tell him that what he had was cobbled together, and his response was that it was an officer's gun, then asked what the point was in my making that comment. I told him that, in case he didn't realize it, he was misrepresenting what he was selling, and that a potential buyer would probably be POed if they got it and found out it wasn't what it was represented to be. I see that the listing is now showing as "deactivated", but I'm not sure if that's for everyone, or just to block me.]

sig63 · Nov 4, 2014

Machodoc said:
What I was going for is the fact that these were made in China in the late '50s, then shipped in about 1960 to Enver Hoxha's regime in Albania under an agreement between Mao and Hoxha. They were sent to a specific country (Albania) and not just floating around somewhere in "the Balkan area".

During that time period, Albania was not involved in ANY wars, even though they were prepared for some perceived invasion threat and had elaborate defensive positions, weapons caches, mountain bunkers, etc. There was a brief period of civil unrest in 1997, but that was hardly "combat". The Hoxha regime also had some very grim prisons, where the guards were armed with SKS rifles, and they had some second-tier rural police who also used the SKS.

So the way that I "exactly know that they were not used in combat" is that they were owned by a government/country that was not at war during the time that they owned the rifles. Given that, it's hard to make a claim that they were used "in combat" when there was no combat.

Good enough explanation? It's simply historical fact vs. marketing hype.

Now, let's play the flip side of this record: on what do you base the claim that they WERE used in combat? Would any American police firearm today be considered as having been "used in combat" because some American police are involved with the riots ... sorry ... protests ... in MO?

While I greatly appreciate your support for the group that we all enjoy so much, when a seller makes a claim that would tend to enhance the collectible value of a firearm, they should be able to back up that claim ... not challenge others to prove them wrong.

"...AND the horse you rode in on!!!"

:gun7:

sig63 · Nov 4, 2014

Machodoc said:
Or not only represent the gun as actually being a Sistema, but represent it as being one of the Hartford contract Colts.

[Edit: I wrote to the guy to tell him that what he had was cobbled together, and his response was that it was an officer's gun, then asked what the point was in my making that comment. I told him that, in case he didn't realize it, he was misrepresenting what he was selling, and that a potential buyer would probably be POed if they got it and found out it wasn't what it was represented to be. I see that the listing is now showing as "deactivated", but I'm not sure if that's for everyone, or just to block me.]

Nah, looks deactivated to me too. I think you got through to him.

Separately I love these gaffs too. It took me a long time to learn what I am talking about WRT all things gun, and in an effort to be 1st safe and 2nd not a total @$$hat, I try to be sure of what I say (and more so what I put in print).

But like you, sometimes (especially when it is "licensed" dealers screwing things up) it makes me pretty angry. The effervescent "Bubbas" that give us all a bad rap.

KH195 · Nov 4, 2014

It's a gun, so must automatically be an assault rifle right?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=451473197

sig63 · Nov 4, 2014

KH195 said:
It's a gun, so must automatically be an assault rifle right?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=451473197

Well...it's barely even a gun at this point. "Sporter" is even a stretch. Unless the sport involves rowing, as it might work okay if pressed into service as a paddle!

somd_mustangs · Nov 4, 2014

Machodoc said:
Or not only represent the gun as actually being a Sistema, but represent it as being one of the Hartford contract Colts.

[Edit: I wrote to the guy to tell him that what he had was cobbled together, and his response was that it was an officer's gun, then asked what the point was in my making that comment. I told him that, in case he didn't realize it, he was misrepresenting what he was selling, and that a potential buyer would probably be POed if they got it and found out it wasn't what it was represented to be. I see that the listing is now showing as "deactivated", but I'm not sure if that's for everyone, or just to block me.]

Wow. That listing is a pretty impressively Silly Thing(s) Said.

reverendbeer said:
Wh...why would you cut down a Sistema slide?

For the subject gun, that's probably all he had from the Sistema - a slide. Sistema parts are pretty cheap on the loose out there, esp compared to "genuine" Colt parts. DGFM slides & barrels pop up all the time on evilPay. Not much point in buying one with the expectation of finding the matching frame, so might as well put it to use.

I really like the hammer on this beauty - lightweight Commander-style with the bottom cut off. WTF was he thinking?
Note the ejection port has been seriously "massaged" too, looks like the chamber side of the barrel actually is exposed on the right side (it looks like you can actually see a piece of the extractor). What a mess.

Good job calling him out. It probably saved him a lot of grief too.

Silly Things Said on Auction Sites

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