Sounds like a good idea, next time I take them to the range i'll write something up.
Bushmaster ACR vs. FN SCAR
- Thread starter Decoy
- Start date
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Sounds like a good idea, next time I take them to the range i'll write something up.
SCARCQB
Get Opp my rawn, Plick!
Kevp comes across as being harsh sometimes. But I can appreciate that need especially if we are taking about gear/ equipment that people rely on to defend themselves or perform duties. Its a dirty job but someone has to do it.
It is up to the rest of us to use this information and make up our minds based on facts. It is always nice to see more than one side of any situation. I am thankful that members here step up to the plate and risk taking on shrapnel in the course of sharing their knowledge.
Awesome write up and good exchange of information, minus the name calling part of course.
It is up to the rest of us to use this information and make up our minds based on facts. It is always nice to see more than one side of any situation. I am thankful that members here step up to the plate and risk taking on shrapnel in the course of sharing their knowledge.
Awesome write up and good exchange of information, minus the name calling part of course.
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,497
Sounds like a good idea, next time I take them to the range i'll write something up.
thanks buddy. I realize that the 1-9 and the 1-7 may prefer different loadings for accuracy, but some kind of grouping data would be real interesting as a large beef with the acr tends to be with the barrel. OOOh, and superperformance 53 gr are cat's meow and not too expensive. Might be something interesting to test.
SCARCQB
Get Opp my rawn, Plick!
Real assault rifles have a " happy switch"
Yeah to be honest I was a little worried that the SCAR would not like the 55gr I used for testing but it was a non issue. I think for longer range testing a 62 gr would be a happy middle ground.
Calengor
wishes he were spike
Oh no! Kev thinks maybe you should buy quality stuff from good companies instead of mediocre or crap gear from iffy companies. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. A mall ninja is someone who talks a lot of shit about tactical stuff while living out of their mother's basement. Kev, having served as a Ranger instructor, and working in -IIRC- weapons acquisition, actually knows things from real world use, by definition making him NOT A MALL NINJA.
If it's your opinion that company X is good enough FOR YOU and your use, that doesn't mean it's as good as company Y overall.
LineofSight
MSI Member, NRA Member
Thanks for posting Kev. A few points I read from your post were what I read about the scar being better from other resources. I myself will be getting a Scar regardless as being a better built weapon from my research. I also hear bad things about Bushmaster in general which is discomforting. Thanks again for whoever posted this review.
Kevp
Ultimate Member
- Apr 17, 2008
- 1,874
Haoleboy,
I don't think I ever bashed anyone. Maybe those who are overly sensitive or somehow emotionally connected to their purchases have taken it that way. The fact is, I usually speak up when someone states something that is not fact such as their $120 RDO is just as good as an Aimpoint. I don't care what you buy. Some people can only afford a $120 RDO. There is nothing wrong with that. It is wrong when they say it is just as good as an Aimpoint because that is not true- that is not bashing. I will never recommend a $120 RDO when someone asks for advice- which is usually something like "which RDO should I buy?" If they asked which RDO should I buy for under $200, then I'd probably tell them to get a Vortex or wouldn't respond at all.
When people ask for recommendations, I recommend what I know to be 1st rate quality gear. I also share my personal experience. I pissed off DD214 with one of my first posts on this board regarding Robinson Arms. I was simply relaying my negative personal experience with that company. Does that make me wrong or a basher? Because I try to put out good and correct information? I think DD will admit that he came to understand what I was doing and actually used information I put out to make informed choices. Mature people tend to do that.
I will admit that I have lost my patience at times and cut loose on a couple people who were making what I considered to be ridiculous arguments. I have experienced more bashing from guys like you than I've dished out. You don't even know me. I've helped quite a few people on this board. I'd even help you if you asked for it. This is at least the second time you've made smart comments toward me that I can remember and you don't even know me. I could care less, but who is the bad guy here? Now you want to make comments about my military service. You really hurt me....deep inside.
Finally, I will admit that I have certain brand loyalties, but not just because I bought them. In fact, many times I bought the brand that I now steer people away from (i.e. EO Tech) and found out the hard way. Or I was issued it or tested it. That is called passing on lessons learned. The problem is some people are too damned thick to catch a clue that might save them money in the long run.
Have a great evening
.
I don't think I ever bashed anyone. Maybe those who are overly sensitive or somehow emotionally connected to their purchases have taken it that way. The fact is, I usually speak up when someone states something that is not fact such as their $120 RDO is just as good as an Aimpoint. I don't care what you buy. Some people can only afford a $120 RDO. There is nothing wrong with that. It is wrong when they say it is just as good as an Aimpoint because that is not true- that is not bashing. I will never recommend a $120 RDO when someone asks for advice- which is usually something like "which RDO should I buy?" If they asked which RDO should I buy for under $200, then I'd probably tell them to get a Vortex or wouldn't respond at all.
When people ask for recommendations, I recommend what I know to be 1st rate quality gear. I also share my personal experience. I pissed off DD214 with one of my first posts on this board regarding Robinson Arms. I was simply relaying my negative personal experience with that company. Does that make me wrong or a basher? Because I try to put out good and correct information? I think DD will admit that he came to understand what I was doing and actually used information I put out to make informed choices. Mature people tend to do that.
I will admit that I have lost my patience at times and cut loose on a couple people who were making what I considered to be ridiculous arguments. I have experienced more bashing from guys like you than I've dished out. You don't even know me. I've helped quite a few people on this board. I'd even help you if you asked for it. This is at least the second time you've made smart comments toward me that I can remember and you don't even know me. I could care less, but who is the bad guy here? Now you want to make comments about my military service. You really hurt me....deep inside.
Finally, I will admit that I have certain brand loyalties, but not just because I bought them. In fact, many times I bought the brand that I now steer people away from (i.e. EO Tech) and found out the hard way. Or I was issued it or tested it. That is called passing on lessons learned. The problem is some people are too damned thick to catch a clue that might save them money in the long run.
Have a great evening
.
Kevp
Ultimate Member
- Apr 17, 2008
- 1,874
Oh, and one more thing on the SCAR. If anyone thinks I am some kind of SCAR fanboy or whatever the current Internet venacular is- I am not. I bought one out of professional interest which is why I buy most of my military type rifles.
I think the SCAR is a quality rifle and thoroughly tested. I don't, however, feel the SCAR and the capability it provides over the M4 (which hasn't been truly realized because they've never been tested side-by-side in a full-up test) warranted the amount of taxpayer money spent to develop it.
I think the SCAR is a quality rifle and thoroughly tested. I don't, however, feel the SCAR and the capability it provides over the M4 (which hasn't been truly realized because they've never been tested side-by-side in a full-up test) warranted the amount of taxpayer money spent to develop it.
With all that plastic and those sealed compartments, I think everyone wants to know, do they float?
lol my guess is no.
aquaman
Ultimate Member
Yes, someone who bashes anything not mil-spec. Are you a mall ninja KevP? Probably not. I've heard you have a military background and i'm sure your knowledge of military tested weaponry is above and beyond anything I have learned.
Doesn't change the fact that you have bashed other peoples choices of equipment over the years for no other reason than the military is not using it.
Guess what, most of us don't give a crap. The rest of us want equipment that will survive 500-1000 rounds a year, at the shooting range. Your panties get in a twist when someone brags about their YHM rail, and how much it suited "their" needs. You just can't help yourself and tell them their equipment is junk since it doesn't wear the LaRue or DD nameplate.
Give it a rest already. If you need something you can depend your life on, I'm 100% sure .MIL will supply you with such equipment when you deploy.
I've always looked up to people in the Military that have risked their life to defend my freedoms. You make that quite difficult for me Kevin.
Not that he needs me to defend him but I will chime in here because this is not the first time this has happened. Kevp has helped me before and is very knowledgeable friendly person. He is not an elitist, ******* or whatever else you may think from his posts. The fact that you called him out and went through the trouble to find posts to attempt to make him look bad is in poor taste and reflects poorly on you.
Nemesis
Russian Grizzly Adams
very nice review on both rifles. my only dislike about the SCAR is that FN cannot seem to match their polymer tones...6 different shades of tan on one rifle is just...well, for the price its unacceptable.
I have a question from KevP's review of you review......
I "think" that RRA and Bushmaster have Gov't contracts to provide M4's and the like to our military right?
RRA and BM both accept MagPul's Pmag's without modification, and also built to accept GI spec mags.
Why would the SCAR be different? Why is the magwell so different that it will not accept Pmag's without modification??
RRA, BM, and FN are all making products for the civilian market. MagPul is huge (at least I think so) for civilians also. Seems like a big risk to make a gun that won't accept a magazine that we obviously love.
I really like both rifles but the fact that the SCAR won't accept Pmag's (since I own a whole bunch) make me lean heavily towards the BM ACR.
I "think" that RRA and Bushmaster have Gov't contracts to provide M4's and the like to our military right?
RRA and BM both accept MagPul's Pmag's without modification, and also built to accept GI spec mags.
Why would the SCAR be different? Why is the magwell so different that it will not accept Pmag's without modification??
RRA, BM, and FN are all making products for the civilian market. MagPul is huge (at least I think so) for civilians also. Seems like a big risk to make a gun that won't accept a magazine that we obviously love.
I really like both rifles but the fact that the SCAR won't accept Pmag's (since I own a whole bunch) make me lean heavily towards the BM ACR.
Calengor
wishes he were spike
The only providers of AR rifles to the US military have been Colt, FN, and Sabre. Bushmaster won a contract but turned it down because they felt they couldn't meet the demands / QC. I do believe RRA and some others have had government agency contracts. In theory, they should all be w/in a certain spec that matches the TDP (Technical Data Package) for the AR rifles.
Regarding the magazines, I believe the way it works is this way: NATO countries got together and made a magazine standard for 5.56NATO assault rifles, which is where the STANAG magazine dimensions come from. The P-Mag was designed not to STANAG specs, but to best fit and work with the AR platform. The E-mag was designed to fit the STANAG specs, and that's why it works in other platforms such as the SCAR. FN made the rifle to fit STANAG specs, not so it'd work with PMAGS. If anything, FN is not at fault, but magpul is. But then, they make the E-mag.
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,497
colt owns the rights to and makes m4s
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,497
as i understand from reading stuff, the m16's are made by fn while the rights to the m4 are owned exclusively by colt. I seem to remember a lot of the legislatively pressured search for a new rifle had to do with politicians wanting the rifles made in their home state and not so much an actual need. Course i have no first hand experience in the matter.....which is where it's nice to have kev to offer an inside look at what's going on.
