NH No-permit gun bill is pushed

mvee said:

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111021/NEWS07/710219987

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Srsanbo said:

Most comments appear to be in favor, but of course you have the few whacky libs that envision the state handing out free guns to everyone and that armageddon will follow when the law-abiding aren't required to have a permit.

Wow.

Good for them - hope it passes.

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mvee said:

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111021/NEWS07/710219987

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jpk1md said:

Actually this is the SECOND Constitutional Carry Bill this year to pass this committee.

First actually passed the house but a certain douchewaffle Senator and the NRA-ILA Rep derailed it.

http://www.pgnh.org/second_constitutional_carry_bill_is_passed_by_nh_house_committee

http://www.pgnh.org/rumor_confirmed_why_senator_boutin_killed_constitutional_carry

http://www.pgnh.org/heave_ho_hohenwarter

If you still believe the NRA is working to further 2A then you're not involved nor are you paying attention to what they are ACTUALLY doing

Edit: Here's a link to the open letter State Representative Elaine Swinford, Chair of the Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee of the New Hampshire House of Representatives wrote to the NRA

http://www.pgnh.org/an_open_letter_..._criminal_justice_and_public_safety_committee

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New Hampshire: The Truth About House Bill 330 and the NRA

Saturday, May 14, 2011

A group in New Hampshire sent out an alert on Friday relating to House Bill 330 that includes many false and baseless accusations.

The National Rifle Association has been the champion of right-to-carry legislation since its origin and always will be. As the leading gun rights organization in the country, the NRA believes that the fundamental right to keep and bear arms should be protected and even restored. Twenty-five years ago, fewer than ten states made it possible for average, honest citizens to carry firearms for self-protection. Today, as a result of the NRA’s efforts, forty states respect that right - and many of those states recognize out-of-state permits as well.

The NRA supports permitless carry legislation. We have successfully helped enact such statutes in Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming, and sought this year to pass similar laws in Colorado, Iowa, Montana and South Carolina in addition to the Granite State. However, in New Hampshire, there is a policy difference between some organizations representing gun owners on H.B. 330, legislation that seeks to recognize the right to carry a loaded, concealed handgun without a license. As a result, there has been much misinformation disseminated about H.B. 330, proposed changes to this bill, and NRA's position on it.

Given these unfounded and misleading accusations, we believe you should know the facts. The NRA has repeatedly debunked false claims about suggested reforms to H.B. 330. Now, without explanation, some critics are accusing the NRA of trying to enact "gun control." That assertion is absurd.

Unfortunately, H.B. 330, while well-intentioned, was poorly drafted. In its current form, the bill falls short of good firearms policy. Changes and clarifications are necessary to not only strengthen its provisions, but also to prevent serious, unintended legal consequences.

As passed in the New Hampshire House of Representatives, H.B. 330 would create legitimate concerns about the carrying of concealed loaded handguns in public by minors. While the bill would not protect the carrying of firearms by minors, it would not actually prohibit it either. This is a key distinction, as under current law, minors are essentially prohibited from carrying concealed loaded handguns in public by the licensing requirement, which would be repealed if H.B. 330 were enacted.

Even more problematic, H.B. 330 would preempt prosecution for the carrying of a firearm in any situation that is not specifically excluded in the bill itself. This includes such instances as:

* The carrying of a firearm by an inmate in jail who is not a prohibited person under New Hampshire law;
* The carrying of firearms contrary to restrictions in protective orders and restraining orders;
* The carrying of firearms contrary to restrictions in a parolee’s or probationer’s conditions of supervision (the bill only mentions bail restrictions);
* The carrying of a firearm on private property in defiance of the property owner’s wishes; and
* The carrying of a firearm while committing a felony.
​

Also troubling, H.B. 330 in its current form additionally purports to protect, as a matter of New Hampshire law, the carrying of firearms by various categories of persons who are prohibited from possessing firearms under federal law.
Accordingly, the NRA and our state affiliate, Gun Owners of New Hampshire, worked together to help draft an amendment that would achieve the following goals:

(1) repeal the current New Hampshire license requirement for the concealed carry or vehicular transport of a loaded handgun;
(2) update New Hampshire’s concealed carry licensing statute so that it can qualify for the exemption from the federal background check requirement for gun transfers;
(3) explicitly require licensing officials to issue a license to any applicant who is not disqualified from possessing a firearm pursuant to state or federal law, and to limit licensing officials' discretion in the suspension and revocation of licenses;
(4) require reciprocal recognition of out-of-state permits and licenses issued to non-residents under the authority of the state in which the person resides; and
(5) in light of the repeal of the license requirement, ensure that unlicensed minors may carry in public only with parental approval and that all minors could carry on school grounds only with the approval of school officials (unless on school grounds open to hunting).
​

Contrary to the false alert, the House (Criminal Justice and Public Safety) committee did not reject the NRA/GO-NH amendment, as it was never considered or voted on.
Critics of the NRA/GO-NH amendment seem to have settled on three main arguments:

(1) it incorporates standards of federal law into New Hampshire law;
(2) it explicitly requires background checks for the issuance of a permit; and
(3) it restricts the rights of minors.
​

Ironically, for all the focus on the suggested reforms to New Hampshire’s licensing scheme, the principal effect of the amendment would be to recognize a person’s right to carry a firearm in any non-restricted public place without a license. Those who have chosen to criticize the NRA/GO-NH amendment ignore the fact that it would repeal the current requirement for a license to carry concealed handguns, while making the issuance of a license optional for those who want one.

With respect to the changes to the licensing system, several key points should be kept in mind. However one might feel about federal gun control laws, they obviously apply in New Hampshire, as they do throughout the country. To ignore that fact is to entertain a dangerous delusion that could lead to very serious consequences, such as federal prosecution, prison time, and a lifetime loss of gun rights. A federally-prohibited person who obtains a state-issued carry license, for example, still cannot lawfully touch a firearm, much less carry one. By doing so, the person would be committing a ten-year federal felony.

On the other hand, explicitly incorporating federal prohibited person standards and mandatory background checks into New Hampshire’s licensing process would produce tangible benefits for licensees, including an exemption from the usual requirement of a NICS check when purchasing a firearm from a dealer; better opportunities for reciprocity in other states; and more security and peace of mind when carrying or transporting a firearm through federal "Gun-Free School Zones," which do not affect in-state licensees when the licensing process verifies that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license.

The amendment supported by NRA/GO-NH would also require that before a carry license was issued or renewed, the same sort of background check that is required for a person to obtain a firearm from a dealer would be conducted. This requirement is necessary to get the NICS exemption, and no one who is not already prohibited under current state or federal law from possessing a firearm would be prohibited from obtaining a carry license under this legislation. Who benefits from prohibited persons obtaining licenses to carry? It is certainly not the prohibited persons themselves left with a false impression that they are acting legally when instead they are merely exposing themselves to federal felony prosecution. The criticism of this change ignores the explicit incorporation of federal law and its requirement of a background check for licensing that is already the practice of New Hampshire licensing officials, if not an explicit requirement of the current statute. The DSSP 85, the form New Hampshire residents complete to obtain a new or renewal license to carry, clearly states: "Applicants not prohibited under federal or NH law from possession of a firearm shall be deemed suitable persons and the license shall be issued unless the applicant is so prohibited from possessing a firearm."

The most unfounded criticisms, however, are those that concern the so-called prohibitions against minors carrying firearms. To understand why these claims have no merit, a brief review of current law is necessary.

First, no matter what state law says, minors still must comply with the requirements of federal law. Federal law generally prohibits the knowing transfer to a "juvenile" (i.e., a person less than 18 years of age) of a handgun or the knowing possession of a handgun by a juvenile. While a number of exceptions are provided, none allow minors to carry handguns free of supervision, oversight, or parental permission. For example, under federal law, the consent of a parent or guardian is only effective if it is in writing, if the parent or guardian himself is not a prohibited person, and if the juvenile has the written permission in his or her possession at all times while also in possession of a handgun. Even then, the consent is only effective for a limited number of specified activities, and the transfer of a handgun to a juvenile may only be temporary. Violators of these provisions face a misdemeanor fine and up to a year in prison (felony penalties are available for more serious violations).

Second, aside from federal law, New Hampshire law currently bans the unlicensed concealed carrying or transport in a vehicle of loaded handguns by adults and juveniles alike; imposes mandatory expulsion on a student who brings a firearm to school without authorization; and generally prohibits (with some exceptions) any person from selling, lending, or giving any minor any pistol or revolver. Against this backdrop, the only requirement the amendment supported by NRA/GO-NH would place specifically on minors is that they would need a license or the permission of their parents or guardians to transport or carry a loaded handgun in public. In addition, a person 18 years of age or younger would require the permission of school authorities before carrying a firearm onto school property unless it is open to public hunting at the time and any of various factors that indicate the person is hunting can be shown. Thus, from the perspective of New Hampshire law, minors would actually gain added protection under the NRA/GO-NH amendment, as it would in some circumstances alleviate the current licensing requirement. The idea that the amendment supported by NRA/GO-NH would prevent minors from hunting or learning to shoot, as some have claimed, is ridiculous and untrue.

Finally, the alert accuses NRA's representative, John Hohenwarter, of saying that "New Hampshire is too stupid to know what it needs." This is a completely false and libelous allegation. The NRA and our representatives -- including John Hohenwarter -- believe that the gun-owning public is intelligent enough to separate fact from fiction. We encourage those who have questions about the NRA/GO-NH amendment to read House Bill 330 for themselves and draw their own conclusions. Fair-minded readers will see that the critics’ claims are false and that the NRA/GO-NH amendment would be a major advancement for responsible, law-abiding New Hampshire gun owners. In the meantime, with your support, the NRA will continue to lead the effort in protecting the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans, as we have done successfully for 140 years.

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ezliving said:

This is stunning.

What does the NRA HQ say about this?

Maybe we should be glad the NRA doesn't help Marylanders much.

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Dear Ted:

First, I personally thank you for the valuable work you have done, and are doing, for the Second Amendment. You have used your talent, success, wit, and celebrity to fight for our freedoms.

Additionally, you are a member of the Board of Directors of the NRA. So this letter is directed to you in strictly that capacity. Why? Because I believe that you will listen. And you have the standing and respect within the NRA to actually do something regarding the issues I’d like to bring to your attention.

We at JPFO recently received a letter from an angry and very articulate fellow who took the vast majority of gun owners to task for not being NRA members. He rightly points out that there are more than eighty million gun owners and only five million members of any pro-gun organization, the NRA obviously being the largest.

I read this fellow’s letter a couple of times, and could not fault him on his spirit or personal philosophy. What bothered me was that he was asking me to join the NRA.
Ted, the day I’ll join the NRA is…

1. When the NRA announces, from the rooftops, that the police have NO LEGAL DUTY to protect the average American citizen. Time after time, our courts have upheld this. If every American understood this, we would see gun ownership, and Second Amendment awareness, burgeon across our nation. The tide would resolutely turn in our favor.

One of JPFO’s finest projects was the book “Dial 911 and Die”. It is meticulously documented with actual court cites. Why didn’t the NRA, years ago, publish this material in a reader friendly format for nationwide distribution?

♦ Why didn’t the NRA, years ago, publish this material in a reader friendly format for nationwide distribution?
NEXT: I’ll join the NRA…

2. When the NRA aggressively presses to abolish all concealed carry permit laws. How has an unalienable right to self defense been demoted to a revocable government granted privilege? Unregistered concealed carry has been no big issue in both Alaska and Vermont for decades. Arizona just passed unregistered concealed legislation. It’s time for the NRA to start swimming strongly with this tide. Yes, it’s a victory for gun owners when a State like Minnesota finally allows registered carry, but we must see it for what it still is: an un-Constitutional infringement on our G-d* given right to self defense, see: "The Ten Commandments of Self Defense". It is also an obvious way to add more gun owner names to a list and database. (*Out of respect, observant Jews do not write out the name of the Almighty in secular texts.)

♦ How has an unalienable right to self defense been demoted to a revocable government granted privilege?
NEXT: I’ll join the NRA…

3. When the NRA calls for the complete and unconditional disbanding of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE). Gun owners should be appalled at the NRA leadership’s incestuous “good cop/bad cop” dance with the BATFE. For decades there has been a symbiotic, and liberty threatening, “good ole’ boy” relationship between NRA and BATFE. They should instead be mortal enemies.

♦ They should instead be mortal enemies.

The BATFE’s abuses are legion and despicable. These criminal acts crested like a bloody wave with the horrific deceit and treachery the agency displayed at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, and then at Waco, Texas.

JPFO has produced a documentary about the BATFE called “The Gang” for which you kindly donated footage, showing you teaching teenagers how to use firearms safely. As you know, “The Gang” is not specifically about Ruby Ridge or Waco, it’s about how, with deliberate regularity, the BATFE criminally harasses honest gun owners.

Did you know that, back during the Administration of Ronald Reagan, President Reagan actually wanted to dismantle the then “BATF”? Who stopped him? The NRA! See this Time Magazine article that reports this hypocrisy.

The NRA has publicly stated that it wants to “work with” BATFE to punish the criminal use of guns, see: copy of NRA response letter. We don’t need these bucket headed, jack booted paramilitary goons playing cops in our lives. Let the local police, county sheriff, State police, or the FBI, do what they were assigned and sworn to do in the first place.

♦ We don’t need these bucket headed, jack booted paramilitary goons playing cops in our lives.

On top of that, tobacco is a drug. Alcohol is a drug. Give that authority to the FDA. Explosives? Wasn’t that an FBI specialty already?

And then there’s the firearms. This means “gun control”, and every single threat to our freedom that comes along with it.
NEXT: I’ll join the NRA…

4. When the NRA soundly condemns, and works tirelessly to abolish, the “Gun Control Act of 1968”. NRA lawyers actually helped to write this piece of totalitarian legislation. JPFO was the first to expose “GCA ‘68” for what it was: a near carbon copy of the Nazi German gun laws of the 1930s. See: "Gun Control" Gateway to Tyranny.

The NRA needs to “man up” and confess that it made a terrible mistake here. It needs to go on an Obama style apology tour of every State, and personally confess this sin to American gun owners. And then repent.

Gun registration (brought to you by GCA ’68) is intolerable in a free society. In Nazi Germany, Jews were forced to identify themselves with a yellow star. In America, our citizens are forced to identify their ownership of firearms with a form called a “4473” and concealed weapon permits.

♦ In Nazi Germany, Jews were forced to identify themselves with a yellow star.

Now, with the computer age fully entrenched in our society, a centralized database of all gun owners and their firearms’ serial numbers is just a mouse click away. The BATFE claims it would never do this. But they are already doing it with their phony 'eTrace' program. They actually share information about American gun owners with foreign governments! This could have ominous repercussions.

Let’s analyze why “GCA ‘68” even passed. It was because of the political assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy, and Martin Luther King. Without those three murders, the American people would have scoffed at the idea of national “gun control”. The highly emotionalized loss of the lives of three public figures, tragic though it was, created enough manipulated hysteria in this nation to essentially throw the Second Amendment out the window.

But what about the hundreds of thousands of brave Americans who have died fighting, generation after generation, to protect our Bill of Rights? Instead of standing firm in the face of this 1968 “gun control” travesty, when a far more conservative America could have been effectively rallied, the NRA got in bed with the gun prohibitionists and actually helped pen the legislation. See: "NRA Supported the National Firearms Act of 1934"and GCA68.
NEXT: I’ll join the NRA…

5. When the NRA quits kowtowing to authoritarian police bureaucrats and takes a no compromise stand against the increasing paramilitarization of our local and State law enforcement agencies.

It’s time to quit building a standing army in America, masquerading as local SWAT teams and hooded “tactical units”. Federal money is lavishly splashed at these local law enforcement agencies. And, as we all know, payback day cannot be far away.

When push comes to shove, can we depend on local cops who have been suckling at the Federal teat, and attending Federal brainwashing seminars?

The NRA has to get in the face of all local police and ask them, point blank: “Will you ever assist in the disarming of the American citizenry?” Any cop who answers in the affirmative must be drummed out of the ranks.

♦ Any cop who answers in the affirmative must be drummed out of the ranks.

“To Protect and Serve” does not mean “To Disarm and Enslave”.
NEXT: I’ll join the NRA…

6. When the NRA assertively speaks to our active duty military personnel and respectfully (but emphatically) reminds them that any disarming of innocent Americans is a blatant and evil breach of their oath to uphold and protect our Constitution. The NRA needs to follow the lead of Oath Keepers in reaching out to both soldiers and cops.

That disgusting “czarette” Janet Napolitano, of Homeland Security, actually had the gall to imply that homecoming soldiers posed a threat because they could be “recruited” by “extremist” groups. The NRA should be at the top of that list of so-called “extremist” groups!

These hard line Leftists have to understand one thing: If forced to, we are unwilling to give them any quarter to protect our freedom. And every freedom loving American should expect that active duty soldiers, who have sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic, will stand, gun in hand, by the side of The People if push ever comes to shove.

♦ These hard line Leftists have to understand one thing: If forced to, we are unwilling to give them any quarter to protect our freedom.
NEXT: I’ll join the NRA…

7. When the NRA forcefully and persistently brings up the uncontestable fact that every major genocide of the 20th Century was preceded by “gun control” policies. Disarmed millions became the victims of government sponsored or condoned mass murder.

What far too many American gun owners are so hesitant to face is that the greatest criminals in history have not been common street thugs. By a huge, huge factor, the greatest criminal element in modern history has been government-gone-bad.

The Founders didn’t pen the Second Amendment to protect us from muggers and rapists or burglars. That’s actually a secondary benefit. They penned the Second Amendment to protect us from our own government! See: "2A Today for The USA".

At one time in America, this somber ideal was actually taught in public schools. Now a kid can’t even draw a picture of a gun or take a “Goody Gun” cookie to school for lunch. The insane poison of political correctness runs amok in our nation today. Ted, you don’t put up with the p.c. garbage, why does the NRA?

♦ The Founders didn’t pen the Second Amendment to protect us from muggers and rapists or burglars.
NEXT: I’ll join the NRA…

8. When the NRA honestly and accurately “grades” politicians for their real position on the Second Amendment. Hillary Clinton’s and Charlie Schumer’s pet protégé Kirsten Gillibrand got an “A” rating from the NRA. This is insane.

Gillibrand is now on the band wagon for a reinstated “assault weapons” ban. The NRA: Suckered and betrayed once again.

Ted Nugent running for office gets an “A+” grade from the NRA. That’s the standard they must start with. We cannot grade on a bell curve when it comes to our freedom.

Our politicians must not simply be “pro gun”, they must be fervently pro Second Amendment. It is now time for zero tolerance for any form of “gun control”. Far too often, American gun owners have seen “A” graded politicians waffle and cave on gun law after gun law. If the NRA has to step away from any candidate to uphold our rights, so be it.

♦ Ted Nugent running for office gets an “A+” grade from the NRA. That’s the standard they must start with.

Millions of American gun owners will reject any candidate who betrays our G-d given right to defend our lives.

The time for any sort of compromise is over. We must now retrieve ground that has been lost to past retreats. It is time for the NRA to really start “walking the walk”. Radically downgrade every single politician who has betrayed us in any way in the past.

Ted, you have the clout and celebrity status to bring any or all of these issues directly to the NRA’s Board of Directors. You can also, through your website and fan base, expose countless younger Americans to these critical matters.

♦ You can also, through your website and fan base, expose countless younger Americans to these critical matters.

It’s time to give the American people a very loud wake up call regarding their freedom. No one can say you are shy, Ted. Please, make some of that trademarked Nugent Noise over these crucial issues.



Sincerely, and Yours in Freedom,

Aaron Zelman, Founder and Director of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

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jpk1md said:

They are trying to sweep it under the rug.

NRA News won't take calls on the issue nor will the Hohenwarter's boss at NRA take calls....trust me, I know a LOT of people here in NH that have lit up the phones of both.

Hohenwarter has a history of similar stunts in Pa and other states.

Here a PILE of results you should read up on.

http://www.google.de/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=hohenwarter+nra+problems+pa

Hohenwarter has pulled these stunts before but NRA continues to employ him and cover this stuff up......makes you wonder eh?

Lets not forget what the NRA did to support the challenger of Rep Don Dwyer!!!

Dwyer is far and above one of the most Pro 2A Reps in Md House of Delegates but yet the NRA provided funding to defeat him.......

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press1280 said:

Very odd considering the NRA was supportive of the recent constitutional carry laws passing in AZ or WY. It would seem for whatever reason the NRA was OK with AZ and WY getting Concarry, but not NH. Maybe some hidden financial motive?
Can't NH just kick this guy out? Seems to me they can do this without the NRA.

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