Recent changes to the definition of "manufacturing" and the impact on gunsmiths

Hit and Run · Aug 4, 2016

Gunsmith Institute of America is looking at legal aspects. Assume others will as well.

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Doctor_M · Aug 4, 2016

Can someone explain to me what "improve the caliber" means?? If I converted a .270 to a .30 carbine (not even sure if that is possible), have I "improved the caliber" since the hole is now bigger? What a load of fertilizer.

John from MD · Aug 4, 2016

If you re chamber using a reamer, pay 2500 or go to jail, do not pass go. If you use a Savage receiver and fully chambered barrels, no issue. (no cutting involved.)

Now, we all know that going from a .270 to a .30 carbine does not improve the firearm one bit. In fact, it actually devalues it. However, does Big Brother know that? :innocent0

John

teratos · Aug 4, 2016

Maybe the feds are just tired of seeing Bubba'd up Mosins and other historical pieces.

iH8DemLibz · Aug 4, 2016

buellsfurn said:
well this s---s, so let me ask I just purchased about four months ago a used wood duplicating machine with rifle stock add on manually operated by hand with copying probe in one hand and other side is a router. Its not reassembled yet just planning for the future/retirement years my intent is to duplicate original rifle stocks maybe pistol grips offering new stocks for those that are broken or just damaged not changing their original capabilities. I thought I had this figured out by housing stocks only with out their actions and should be operating legally. so my question is with the proposed changes sounds like I need be registered and pay the 2500.00 bucks

I think you're fine there.

They are more concerned with folks who are machining things and making things and attaching things to a serialized receiver.

You're just cranking out stocks. And you're not applying them to anything. Hell! Barrel makers could get away with making barrels. As long as they're not attaching them. Same goes for any number of gun widgets. Just chunks of steel and wood.

This new law/EO/regulation only deals with business folks who have serialized parts in their possession.

Though it could be modified to include basement and kitchen table tinkerers in the future. ATF could amend they're regulations as well. Regulate 80s. Regulate assembly. Etc.

But hardly enforceable.

BeoBill · Aug 4, 2016

Doctor_M said:
Can someone explain to me what "improve the caliber" means?? If I converted a .270 to a .30 carbine (not even sure if that is possible), have I "improved the caliber" since the hole is now bigger? What a load of fertilizer.

It's going to shut down wildcatters. Pure harassment. :tdown:

BeoBill · Aug 4, 2016

buellsfurn said:
well this s---s, so let me ask I just purchased about four months ago a used wood duplicating machine with rifle stock add on manually operated by hand with copying probe in one hand and other side is a router. Its not reassembled yet just planning for the future/retirement years my intent is to duplicate original rifle stocks maybe pistol grips offering new stocks for those that are broken or just damaged not changing their original capabilities. I thought I had this figured out by housing stocks only with out their actions and should be operating legally. so my question is with the proposed changes sounds like I need be registered and pay the 2500.00 bucks

Sounds to me like you could make a very sound case of being a woodworking shop. :innocent0

buellsfurn · Aug 4, 2016

I agree all should be well I was reading hit and runs post #11 line item c and it made me think. ill just be a small operation in 25 x 30 work area the only thing id be changing at best would be specie's of wood Thanks to all

clandestine · Aug 4, 2016

iH8DemLibz said:
I think you're fine there.

They are more concerned with folks who are machining things and making things and attaching things to a serialized receiver.

You're just cranking out stocks. And you're not applying them to anything. Hell! Barrel makers could get away with making barrels. As long as they're not attaching them. Same goes for any number of gun widgets. Just chunks of steel and wood.

This new law/EO/regulation only deals with business folks who have serialized parts in their possession.

Though it could be modified to include basement and kitchen table tinkerers in the future. ATF could amend they're regulations as well. Regulate 80s. Regulate assembly. Etc.

But hardly enforceable.

These regs have nothing to do with serialized parts. One does not have to have a FFL or possess firearm receivers for the U.S. State Department ruling to apply.

If you have a business that is the first qualifier.

Simply threading a barrel, crowning, throating, lapping, or re-chambering a barrel for increased accuracy, or reliability is now subject to DDTC/ITAR.

The penalty for non compliance is much worse than BATFE violations.

Making a gun stock that enhances the functionality or accuracy would fall under this ruling if the person making the stocks does it as a business.

BeoBill · Aug 4, 2016

clandestine said:
These regs have nothing to do with serialized parts. One does not have to have a FFL or possess firearm receivers for the U.S. State Department ruling to apply.

If you have a business that is the first qualifier.

Simply threading a barrel, crowning, throating, lapping, or re-chambering a barrel for increased accuracy, or reliability is now subject to DDTC/ITAR.

The penalty for non compliance is much worse than BATFE violations.

Making a gun stock that enhances the functionality or accuracy would fall under this ruling if the person making the stocks does it as a business.

I have yet to find one that does either for me. That's an awfully broad swath you're trying to cut, IMO.

DaemonAssassin · Aug 5, 2016

Tagging.

clandestine · Aug 5, 2016

BeoBill said:
I have yet to find one that does either for me. That's an awfully broad swath you're trying to cut, IMO.

OMO, all of these things would certainly qualify:

Changing from a Wood to a Synthetic Stock
Adding a Stock with Pillar Bedded or modification.
Free Floating a Stock or modofication
Changing to a Folding Stock

ezracer · Aug 5, 2016

Everyone on this thread is using common sense and utilizing their intellect.
People, NOTHING needs to make sense.

The left wants our guns, one way or another!! PERIOD

smdub · Aug 5, 2016

buellsfurn said:
well this s---s, so let me ask I just purchased about four months ago a used wood duplicating machine with rifle stock add on manually operated by hand with copying probe in one hand and other side is a router. Its not reassembled yet just planning for the future/retirement years my intent is to duplicate original rifle stocks maybe pistol grips offering new stocks for those that are broken or just damaged not changing their original capabilities. I thought I had this figured out by housing stocks only with out their actions and should be operating legally. so my question is with the proposed changes sounds like I need be registered and pay the 2500.00 bucks

You would be making firearms parts. You would have had to pay ITAR under the old rules (unless you filed for exemptions for each stock model.) The new rules change does not affect that.

inkd · Aug 6, 2016

For what it's worth.

http://www.nssfblog.com/ddtc-says-guidance-is-not-new-but-clarification/

iH8DemLibz · Aug 6, 2016

Good letter and thanks for posting it.

Glad to see some big guns are on top of it.

Sirex · Aug 10, 2016

As dumb as 922r saying if you change parts on an imported firearm, you are manufacturing. Soon, under Hitlary, they will determine mechanics and speed shops are manufacturers.

BeoBill · Aug 10, 2016

Sirex said:
As dumb as 922r saying if you change parts on an imported firearm, you are manufacturing. Soon, under Hitlary, they will determine mechanics and speed shops are manufacturers.

Only when they want to make cars illegal.

pcfixer · Aug 12, 2016

ezracer said:
Everyone on this thread is using common sense and utilizing their intellect.
People, NOTHING needs to make sense.

The left wants our guns, one way or another!! PERIOD

The 'intent' is to make all gun owner criminals.

Doctor_M · Aug 12, 2016

That is what they want.... but it will be a huge mistake to turn even a significant portion of otherwise law abiding citizens into outlaws... the "I will not comply" movement will pick up huge momentum (as it has been steadily doing) and will ultimately nullify the legitimacy of the government.

Recent changes to the definition of "manufacturing" and the impact on gunsmiths

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