Prism Sights

I have been playing around with prism sights lately. Never really cared for anything other than a good set of iron sights until now. The biggest reason that I have avoided the new fancy scopes is that I hate batteries. I have visions of being out in the wilderness in some post apocalyptic, real version of that fallout game, and all I have for sights are some dead batteries and a clear tube with no reticle. Prism sights are almost indestructible and with an etched reticle, you don't need batteries to use it. In the last couple of years, I have had to start wearing reading glasses. Not only has this been a real shot to my mortality, but it has gotten me interested in optics. This has been both depressing due to having to come to terms with my age and kind of fun as it is opening up a whole new branch of my firearm hobby.

I am lucky enough not to need it but if you have an astigmatism and regular red dot sights look blurry, this is the kind of sight that you need to use.

The first one that I got was a Burris AR-1X combo with a 3X magnifier. Love it. It looks just like a set up you see on TV that all the pseudo-seal teams have. Takes me back to watching Rambo for the first time. The two biggest selling points for me were 1) It takes AA batteries and it advertises 5000 hours between replacements. I use rechargeable AA batteries in everything around the house already. My video remotes, computer mouse, flashlights, etc. 2) It has a really cool bullet drop reticle that is designed for the .308 and 5.56 cartridges. I would think that using a magnifier with this type of reticle is an obvious combination.

The second one I got with the Primary Arms Cyclops. The one down side is that you cannot use this sight with a magnifier. If you fiddle with the diopter on this sight and on the magnifier to get them to work together, when you swing the magnifier away, you will have to re-adjust the diopter on this sight again in order to use it. With a Burris 3X magnifier and the sight reticle set for my eye, I can tune the magnifier to almost in focus when I run out of adjustment. Other than that, this sight is a nice little sight with clear glass and a great reticle. The batteries last 3000 hours at a medium setting. The reticle has bullet drop compensation marks that will work for both 5.56 or .308 firearms. Just FYI, This is a one power sight. There is no magnification while looking through it. If you look into the sight and the reticle is upside down, you are looking through the wrong end. The PA sight comes with allen wrenches and a glass cleaning cloth, everything that most optics come with these days. It comes with lens covers that are spring loaded open. The lens covers are a little on the cheap side but good enough that I do not plan on replacing them.

I find myself beginning to ramble so I will go ahead and stop right there. If you have any questions, let me know.

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After the Primary Arms Cyclops, I got to thinking...

I see a lot of memes and comments on forums about how we should be educating liberals about firearms before they can write laws about them. I understand the logic of having educated law makers, but informing the same folks who seek to ban firearms can also be a bad idea. From our point of view, explaining all the ridiculous and movie/cinema gotten misinformation would naturally seem like a good idea because we would have gun owner's best interests in mind. For a liberal, on the other hand, you might just be giving them the means to write air-tight laws and ideas on what next to ban. To think that somehow if an anti-gun politician with more knowledge on the subject will be better for gun owners is naive. The liberals did not even know what a bump stock was three years ago.

I have a friend that I was telling him about the ACSS (Advanced Combat Sighting System) reticle. He had no idea that such a thing was made or sold to the general public. This reticle has lines/marks that represent 18 inches or the average width of a person's chest, at range. Dots to help lead a target that are set based on the speed of a person who is running. It also has a gauge to judge range based on an average person's height of 5'10".

If more liberals knew about this sight reticle, I am certain that they would write legislation and try to ban it. This is largely the reason I bought three of them (1X, 3X, and 5X prism sights) when I really only needed one. LOL

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I am seriously looking into the 6X Sightmark Wolfhound for my next optic to play with. I love the reticle and the specs look pretty good. That Sightmark name just has a poor reputation of cheaply made junk. Companies have, in the past, been able to improve their products. Sometimes even, over time, become the the high watermark. I usually don't have a problem buying something just to look at it in person if I am interested. The problem is, this sight is a little pricey to buy and only use as a paper weight.

Does anyone have one that can give me some feedback on it?

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TinCuda said:

I have a friend that I was telling him about the ACSS (Advanced Combat Sighting System) reticle. He had no idea that such a thing was made or sold to the general public. This reticle has lines/marks that represent 18 inches or the average width of a person's chest, at range. Dots to help lead a target that are set based on the speed of a person who is running. It also has a gauge to judge range based on an average person's height of 5'10".

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I think the biggest consumers of this type of optic, outside of LE/MIL, are 3-gun shooters.

Centerfire Systems is having a Sightmark sale now, worth a look if you're into them. Click on the "Latest edeal" logo at the top of their homepage.

Thank you for this thread, OP. My eyes have said "astigmatism it is". I have been looking at prism sights and was looking for some first hand information. You have cleared up a couple questions. Nice write up.

Magnumite said:

Thank you for this thread, OP. My eyes have said "astigmatism it is". I have been looking at prism sights and was looking for some first hand information. You have cleared up a couple questions. Nice write up.

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Great! Please let me know if you have any questions.

TinCuda said:

I am seriously looking into the 6X Sightmark Wolfhound for my next optic to play with. I love the reticle and the specs look pretty good. That Sightmark name just has a poor reputation of cheaply made junk. Companies have, in the past, been able to improve their products. Sometimes even, over time, become the the high watermark. I usually don't have a problem buying something just to look at it in person if I am interested. The problem is, this sight is a little pricey to buy and only use as a paper weight.

Does anyone have one that can give me some feedback on it?

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I cannot speak to that sight, however most of sightmarks recent offerings have been impressively good. I have a couple of their laser aiming modules and they have definitely stepped up their game.

That said, depending on price, I cannot help but think that offerings from Primary Arms or Vortex might be better quality for about the same money

So, just my opinion, but there's like three prism sights worth buying, ordered by price point:
1. Primary Arms Silver Series. The BDC reticles in these are excellent, and the glass is pretty good for the money. I also like how the newer ones have a removable riser, allowing you to use them on platforms where you don't want full AR height sights (ie, AKs). The Vortex prism sights are comparable, but IMHO, the BDC reticles are not as good as PA's.
2. Steiner M-series. Not quite as good as ACOGs, but a nice bump up from the PA prism sights in terms of quality. They are on sale fairly frequently at OpticsPlant and Dvor.
3. Trijicon ACOG. The LED ACOGs are excellent if you can swing them, but the FO ACOGs work alright, too. Be careful of the non-FO/LED ACOGs - while they're often cheaper (especially used), they can sometimes be a little slower due to the reticle choice. YMMV.

I will say that once you get past the Steiner price point of ~$500, I think you are WAY better off buying a Burris XTR II 1.5-8x DFP LPVO instead of an ACOG. It's just better in almost every way - the glass is slightly worse, but that's about it. In general, LPVOs have gotten so good at various price points that it's rather hard to justify the higher-end prism sights outside of some very specific circumstances. About the only time I use prism sights now is when I have a fixed front sight that interferes with 1x optics.

erwos said:

I will say that once you get past the Steiner price point of ~$500, I think you are WAY better off buying a Burris XTR II 1.5-8x DFP LPVO instead of an ACOG. It's just better in almost every way - the glass is slightly worse, but that's about it. In general, LPVOs have gotten so good at various price points that it's rather hard to justify the higher-end prism sights outside of some very specific circumstances. About the only time I use prism sights now is when I have a fixed front sight that interferes with 1x optics.

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Agreed. The ACOG was and still is a fantastic optic, but its price point puts it up against Trijicon/Leupold LPVOs and the higher end Burris/Vortex LPVOs, as well as less conventional stuff like an Eotech HHS or a Leupold LCO+D-Evo, all of which stomp the ACOG in terms of function and overall versatility.

3-gun shooters these days use nothing but scopes unless they are newbies. The USAMU doesn't even recommend sights + magnifiers for troops in the field anymore, although I am pretty sure some still use them. A variable scope from 1-4x up to 1-12x is the way to go. However the more power the scope the less eye relief and the less variation in head position you have to deal with. I found in 3-gun that I had no problem ripping off hits at 400y with a 1-4x scope. I only went to a 1-6x scope when they started throwing targets out to 600 yards (I used Burris MTAC scopes in both cases). Biggest thing is finding a reticle you like. I found I happened to like the Burris Ballistic CQ reticle.

photoracer said:

3-gun shooters these days use nothing but scopes unless they are newbies. The USAMU doesn't even recommend sights + magnifiers for troops in the field anymore, although I am pretty sure some still use them. A variable scope from 1-4x up to 1-12x is the way to go. However the more power the scope the less eye relief and the less variation in head position you have to deal with. I found in 3-gun that I had no problem ripping off hits at 400y with a 1-4x scope. I only went to a 1-6x scope when they started throwing targets out to 600 yards (I used Burris MTAC scopes in both cases). Biggest thing is finding a reticle you like. I found I happened to like the Burris Ballistic CQ reticle.

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I debated putting the vortex spitfire 1x on my scorpion evo for a while. I have one on my m&p 15-22 and love it. Likely now to put a sig Romeo 5 or a trijicon mro on it. Love the mro

Magnumite said:

Thank you for this thread, OP. My eyes have said "astigmatism it is". I have been looking at prism sights and was looking for some first hand information. You have cleared up a couple questions. Nice write up.

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Follow up on my own post. Cuda, you cost-edd me money. Bought the Spitfire. Need to mount and sight it in. Looking forward to it as well.

Magnumite said:

Follow up on my own post. Cuda, you cost-edd me money. Bought the Spitfire. Need to mount and sight it in. Looking forward to it as well.

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You are going to love it.

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Magnumite said:

Follow up on my own post. Cuda, you cost-edd me money. Bought the Spitfire. Need to mount and sight it in. Looking forward to it as well.

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I also have a Spitfire (1X); really like it.

Awesome thread. I personally have an astigmatism so prism sights are the way to go for me since normal red dots are blurry. I recently got my first prism , the Vortex Spitfire 1x-AR Prism Scope. Looking forward to taking it to the range to test out.

I have wanted to like prism scopes, especially with astigmatism, but they usually have a lot of fishbowl/distortion at 1x for me to shoot with both eyes open, there isn't magnification, but the lenses basically change the focal length like your eye is at the front lens. Had a 3x spitfire that I liked, but got rid of it after I went to LPVO scopes, only real benefit of prisms IMO is lighter weight, and a compact size. The cheaper 1-Xs do have some distortion, but even mid-priced $500ish models can look really good and flat at 1X for shooting both eyes open, have daylight bright illumination, and more magnification. Red dots do vary quite a bit too, have a couple <$200 Bushnell and PA red dots, lots of dot flare, blu-ish tint, and a bit of distortion, they do work, and are easier to shoot with both eyes than a magnified optic, or irons, but far from great. Better red dots like Aimpoints have a much more narrow band reflective coating(reflects only the LED's wavelength) so less ambient light is reflected, so less distortion, brighter image, and less tinting, also makes the dot crisper, and easier to pick up at lower brightness settings, a HUGE improvement if you ever get a chance to shoot one. The Trij MROs are an exception, the tritum and FO lighting require a wider band coating, so they look crappy IMO, while not requiring batteries is nice, no big deal to swap one every few years in an Aimpoint. Reducing brightness settings also helps a ton, running a RD too bright, especially with a wide band coating usually gives a lot of flare and a mishapen dot, especially true for EoTechs, the reticle looks good when it's turned down to be almost as low as it can be clearly visible. The center dot is brighter anyway, and the brighter the reticle gets, the more grainy it looks, being holographic they are unique in that the lenses can be transparent, so 0 distortion or color change.

I suppose all optics are about preference and compromise. I like the magnified prism sight due to, well, it's magnified. This is nice for distance shooting. To use it quickly for close targets, you just keep both eyes open and superimpose the illuminated reticle over your target. You are not actually looking through the optic. This can be done similar to an Armson sight. Like the one in attached picture.

This is a pretty good deal right now on the Steiner R1X. The non QD mount version comes with a riser for 1/3 co witness.

I have a Steiner M332 and the single lever QD mount is crap! Glass is Great as would be expected from Schott. Reticle is also great and similar to the primary arms ACSS. First trip to range after building an AR/SR 308 at SOTAR was disappointing. Like Barn MOA. After inspection at home the Steiner QD mount does not fit with close tolerance to the bottom of the M332 and the mount bolts were definitely on the loose side. I re-torqued with loctite and tightened the cam lock considerably so we'll see what happens this weekend when I try again.

https://www.dvor.com/steiner-r1x-re...data=33314d782f324d5773502f5a4b706243&options[]=2178-8311-228397

I got a Primary Arms Blem Prism sight a while ago that I finally mounted. It's a 3x model. I'm not sure if it's me, or the scope, but I have to get my eye really close to the scope to see start get through it. Not scope eye close, but the eye relief can't be more than 3 inches. Prior to getting close, I can see the reticle, but the field of view seems blocked and I can only see through about half the sight. Once I get closer, the sight picture is fine. Any answers on this one for me?